5 tool players

[NovaHoops2002]

Here is the list according to MLB advanced statistics using the following criteria:

Hitting: Batting exit velocity of ≥ 110 mph
Hitting for power: Home run distance of ≥ 425 feet
Fielding: Route efficiency of ≥ 98 percent
Throwing: Throws of ≥ 85 mph
Running: Top base running speed of ≥ 21 mph

Mike Trout
Andrew McCutchen
Carlos Gomez
Yoenis Cespedes
Lorenzo Cain
Hunter Pence
Ian Desmond
Marcell Ozuna
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/152163938/trout-cain-among-statcast-five-tool-stars
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/152163938/trout-cain-among-statcast-five-tool-stars

 

[nardibynature123]

Can you please put this in tomdudes thread, we know you are just trolling adp.

 

[adp98]

Awesome. Heading into meetings soon so the fun will be over. Adding, young mickey mantle.

 

[NovaHoops2002]

Not trolling at all. I think this list is crap. It just shows that it's not all about computer stats.

 

[nardibynature123]

Not trolling at all. I think this list is crap. It just shows that it's not all about computer stats.

I guess Carlos Gomez is a power hitter now, has 100 homeruns over 8 years.

 

[OldManYellsatCloud]

So Ian Desmond who is a butcher is a 5 tool player? Ozuna too even though he hit 200 and was sent to minors this season? What a joke.

Yet a beast like Harper isn't on list why? Because he only tops out at 20mph when running?

This is everything that's wrong with saber nerd stats. Ignores obvious things like Desmond's inability to field a routine grounder cleanly.

Que FoyeEffect telling me how wrong I am after he argues with some teenager on Twitter about the Mets lineup.

 

[Villanova U]

The first tool is "hitting for average," not just "hitting." Measuring the exit velocity is stupid. Both of the "hitting" tools listed above are just a measure of how hard you swing the bat.

 

[NickleDimer]

Pure throwing speed and baserunning speed are not gr8 measures. CoP examples: Pedro Feliz didn't have a cannon, but was dead solid accurate. Chaz Utley wasn't blazing fast but was very smart on the bases.
Exit velocity and home run distance is redundant.
Route efficiency seems solid.

 

[OldManYellsatCloud]

How does route effeciency apply to an infielder?

 

[FreddyShoop]

Alex Ochoa was the original 5-tool player.

 

[HereComeTheCats]

One of the tools should be "Plays the game the right way."

You can't be a 5 tool player if you watch home runs, don't run out fly balls and step on the baseline on the way to the dugout.

 

[LizReed]

Don't better hitters consistently make better contact? Seems like a high average exit velocity is the best indicator of repeated, solid contact and, thus, a pretty good metric.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Another gr8 mets five tool player: Lastings Milledge

 

[Chimpat]

Shoop, wasn't Alex Escobar the real bigtime Mets 5 tool prospect? I remember that they wouldn't deal him for anything.... and then he was a bust.

 

[lowry99]

Does this list increase the chances for Desmond getting the $100 million deal adp bet me he'd be getting this offseason from somebody?

My favorite 5-tooler will always be this untouchable, glad Rube traded the lesser lights and made sure the fans could enjoy him for many years:

 

[NickleDimer]

Don't better hitters consistently make better contact? Seems like a high average exit velocity is the best indicator of repeated, solid contact and, thus, a pretty good metric.

Is better contact defined as squaring up the ball or squaring up the ball with high swing speed? And back spin helps for homers. It's all squishy. The best thing that MLB could do is release all data to the public and let them fight out the "best" metrics. Their hoarding data and trying to create their own is falling flat.

 

[tomdudes]

For throwing, all the velocity in the world doesn't help if you don't know where it's going.

 

[NickleDimer]

For throwing, all the velocity in the world doesn't help if you don't know where it's going.

Exactly, dudes.

 

[VURambler]

With these types of statistics, why even bother playing the games?

 

[LizReed]

Is better contact defined as squaring up the ball or squaring up the ball with high swing speed? And back spin helps for homers. It's all squishy. The best thing that MLB could do is release all data to the public and let them fight out the "best" metrics. Their hoarding data and trying to create their own is falling flat.

I'd define it as squaring up with a reasonably high (purposefully ambiguous) swing speed. On one end of the spectrum is bunting---squaring up with 0 bat speed. Pretty worthless measure of contact, we'd all agree.

I read somewhere, (Ricky Bo, perhaps?), about a high correlation between exit velocity and batting average. Something like a 1 mph increase in average exit velocity results in a few extra BA pts. Interesting stuff. I'll see if I can track down the actual numbers somewhere.

 

[NickleDimer]

I'd define it as squaring up with a reasonably high (purposefully ambiguous) swing speed. On one end of the spectrum is bunting---squaring up with 0 bat speed. Pretty worthless measure of contact, we'd all agree.

I read somewhere, (Ricky Bo, perhaps?), about a high correlation between exit velocity and batting average. Something like a 1 mph increase in average exit velocity results in a few extra BA pts. Interesting stuff. I'll see if I can track down the actual numbers somewhere.

A high correlation between exit velocity and BABIP would make sense - hit a ball in the hole slowly and they might get there, hit it Giancarlo style and they will be ducking out of the way if it's right at them. Of course, punch and judy hitters like Ichiro or Ben Revere will throw that theory off. And Ryan Howard might too. He'll smoke some balls right to the shift.

 

[wcburrs87]

So Ian Desmond who is a butcher is a 5 tool player? Ozuna too even though he hit 200 and was sent to minors this season? What a joke.

Yet a beast like Harper isn't on list why? Because he only tops out at 20mph when running?

This is everything that's wrong with saber nerd stats. Ignores obvious things like Desmond's inability to field a routine grounder cleanly.

Que FoyeEffect telling me how wrong I am after he argues with some teenager on Twitter about the Mets lineup.

Yum, now this was popcorn worthy.

 

[adp98]

Desmond has 5 tools: Hitting for power, failure to make contact, poor plate discipline, failure to lay down a bunt, and inability to catch.

 

[ericw]

For throwing, all the velocity in the world doesn't help if you don't know where it's going.

actually all the speed in the world doesn't help - but velocity includes both speed and direction so it can be related directly to effectiveness.

 

[tomdudes]

actually all the speed in the world doesn't help - but velocity includes both speed and direction so it can be related directly to effectiveness.

Believe it or not, I typed that at first, but thought my engineering side did not need to shine through. Started flashing back to my courses on vector dynamics.

 

[ericw]

Believe it or not, I typed that at first, but thought my engineering side did not need to shine through. Started flashing back to my courses on vector dynamics.

i would have let anyone else get away with

 

[NickleDimer]

They're calling it velocity, but it's speed. Even velocity would be inadequate.