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Campaign to end mass incarceration

ringmyBELL

'Nova Nation Sensation
Feb 10, 2011
977
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How about a campaign to end mass criminality instead? I would imagine if people stopped committing crimes and felonies then there wouldn't be a mass incarceration problem.

John Legend
 
That makes too much sense though.

For example, this new police shooting in Oklahoma. The guy was caught in a sting operation illegally selling guns. Maybe don't do that and you won't get shot?
 
its easier to blame others than for those people to take responsibility for their actions.

dont commit a crime, you dont go to jail. its that easy.
 
I think it's time to stop sending people to jail/prison for drug possession when they're clearly not involved in selling it. Make all first time drug possession a summary offense where someone gets a citation and for subsequent offenses, send them to a special drug court that has the discretion to fine them, put them in rehab, or send them to jail if they refuse to go to rehab.
 
I am sure the whole thing needs a mass makeover. You may have excessive sentences, but at the same time how many times do you see a cop killer or any murderer have a rap sheet that makes you ask "How are they not in jail?"
 
Everybody is a victim! Everybody deserves free shit! Everybody should get a trophy! My kid got a bad grade, it's the teacher's fault! Libtard thinking destroying America.
 
One thing that should be noted is that as incarceration rates have risen, crime has fallen.
 
Right on, ringmyBELL! It's on the news almost every day. 2003 - You are on target. This country has turned into an entitlement society and is headed down hill. There is no personal responsibility values anymore!
 
If they changed the drug policy incarceration rates would plummet. Also, if they changed the way they handled drugs in general a lot petty crimes would fall as well. I believe that they should be treated as a medical issue and not a criminal issue. Sure, you can fine ppl and multiple arrests could lead to serious punishment, but people who are hooked have a medical problem at this point and treatment is way too hard to get. Treatment should be much easier to get and more open. Until the US comes to this realization as other countries have already started to do, the problem is going to continue.

From what I've read, Portugal's decriminalization method has worked out fairly well after 12 years but that's a bit easier to deploy in a country that size. I think the main issue with drugs in America is that the majority of the people think that the user made their choice and they have to live with it and should rot in jail. While part of this is true, it often happens to people who really have no idea what they are doing and get caught up the cycle and have no way out. Once you get past the initial choice, the addiction is a disease at that point and treatment not imprisonment should be used. I'd really hope to see some forward thinking people make changes in this regard in the next 5-10 years.
 
Crimes arent about to cease to exist. The best campaign to end mass incarceration is to simply off all life sentence inmates via firing squad. Bullets are cheap. Taxes are not. Let's get after this.
 
Non-violent drug offenses should be handled with more electronic monitoring with increased probationary supervision and frequent drug testing and expungement options. If somebody commits a property offense due to drug issues, then some jail time but ultimately probation with drug testing supervision.

The big thing is how to handle violations of probation. I think you need to go harder on that, otherwise the junkies never learn. But by harder it should be jail with early release to residential treatment facilities.

Also, the only drug whereby possession should be felony is meth. Everything else should be misdemeanors, with weed being legal,and cocaine as a petty misdemeanor.

But noooooooooo, nancy Reagan started a war and we need to finish it!!
 
Another thing would be to better address mentally ill people. Since deinstitutionalization, prisons have become the primary place where mentally ill people are treated.
 
Ball, I think that the probationary stuff is the hardest part w/ treating drug addiction. Because jail doesn't work for people who are hooked. Throwing them in jail for violating probation isn't going to make them stop. Sure maybe for some people, but it would be a very small percentage. I know that treatment doesn't always (honestly it's most of the time) stick, but it's the best way to rehabilitate. I think that monitoring, testing, easy and accessible treatment and escalating fines would be a good start but it really comes down to personal choice and these people that are addicted and seriously addicted, have what amounts to a mental illness. Their brain chemistry has changed, body functionality has changed, they need specialized treatment. The funds that are pumped into enforcement and incarceration of these "criminals" could easily be re-purposed towards rehabilitation and would also help to lessen the stigma surrounding treatment and even more people would/could get help.
 
Drug probation violation is going to be tricky, because in most cases i would expect a repeat offender. Addiction is hard to beat even with a well funded rehab process. People from even the wealthiest of families that can get legitimate support and health care to fight addiction still often end up going back to drugs. A less fortunate person living month to month or on the street, with lesser mean, without access to better care does not have much to stop him from going back to drugs.
 
Couple things would be helpful for now:

1. Completely decriminalize marijuana and make it corporate to the extent that it's similar to tobacco cigarettes.

2. Hold PHARMA financially accountable for the massive upswing in heroin addiction that they caused, immediately reduce opiate pain killer usage by at least 90%, and use PHARMA fines to treat existing addicts.

But also ... the idea that massive numbers of people are incarcerated just for using is also a bit of a myth, there are anecdotal items about horrible sentences for mere users, but the vast majority of people who are locked up on drug related crimes are people who were heavily involved in trade, or committed an act of violence, etc.
 
Dmill, that's exactly the point that I was trying to make. People that are addicted tend to remain addicted even if they do a month in jail or keep going back. It's just clogging up the system and the police for unnecessarily. I understand that it's a illegal, but at the same time it's a personal choice of what someone wants to do to themselves. Obviously legalizing the whole shebang doesn't make much sense, but I think the decriminalization model of pretty much everything makes sense and it's proven to work. People who want to use are going to whether it's legal or not. Proper treatment has a very low success rate the 1st go around the more people attempt treatment the higher the rate of success goes. Also, getting treatment for addiction is still a very taboo subject in this country and society looks down on someone that seeks help because they're seen as some sort of junkie. If that stigma was lessened by easily available treatment and people could repeatedly get easy and accessible care, I think that it would be extremely more successful than jailing. As I said before, the funds going towards enforcement and incarceration could cover most of the costs but if the government really got behind it and funded a program well, I think there would be a lot of success.

There was a study done by the Washington State Institute of Public Policy that found that treatment would save about $20,000 per incarcerated person per year. Also that every dollar spent on treatment in the community yields over $18 in cost savings related to the crime. As of 2 years ago, 46% of Federal prisoners were there on drug offenses and on the state level it was over 20%. Also, increased available treatment has proven to be effective in reducing incarceration. Of the 20 states that have above average rates of people entering treatment, 19 have below average incarceration rates for drug offenses.

And LG, I don't know where you're getting your facts but I don't believe that this is true. As of a few years ago, about 15% of the drug offense prison population was made up of Marijuana offenses. And for the last 5 years, over 80% of drug arrests were for possession of a controlled substance. So what you're saying really isn't true
 
Arrests does not equal prison and marijuana "offenses" does not equal possession-only. Numbers are pretty low for marijuana possession only, a really really small percentage, some say less than 1%. Anyway, I said to legalize marijuana.
 
The "marijuana offenses" are people who were selling marijuana, usually in pretty substantial quantities. Street level drug dealers who move large amounts of product tend not to be very nice people. Legalize marijuana, but let's not assume that if we release those people from prison that crime is going to stay the same. The chances are that a lot of them are going to end up in prison for some sort of other hustle.

Again, we have to have a serious reflection about whether there is a causal effect between the crime rate, which is dropping, and the incarceration rate, which is near record levels. If we want to reduce the number of people we have in also need to get a better handle on what types of offenders have the lowest recidivism rates and adjust sentencing laws accordingly. Also, perhaps we should sit back and reflect when one or two people paroled or released from prison decide to commit a heinous crime. Instead of creating public policy on a mass scale based on those instances, we should punish those individuals extremely harshly for their crimes.
 
Originally posted by TheFoyeEffect:
Street level drug dealers who move large amounts of product tend not to be very nice people.
Well, if you're typically a lot of cash and valued items around in a poor neighborhood and are unable to have the protections afforded to regular businesses, you need to adjust your attitude to survive.
 
Its hard to know how many people are locked up in prisons for simply being users/possessing drugs but we do know that nearly half of the prison population is in for "drug offenses." Many bad people in that mix for sure, but many others serving very harsh sentences for non violent drug crimes. Hell there are people serving life for nonviolent crack offenses. We imprison a higher percentage of our population than gulag era Russia.

Drugs have never been stronger or cheaper and illicit dug use has remained steady or increased over the past 10 to 15 years. Compare that to tobacco use which continues to decline and where we have seen sharp declines in youth use (the very population starting out with illicit drugs).

Just started a new book about the war on drugs called Chasing The Scream. Only a couple pages in but its a good read so far.. starts of with the days Harry Anslinger. Cocaine Nation is a good book on the drug war in the US and how cocaine created an even harsher new world for that war.
 
I'm in line with bgranc. Over 80% of people who are arrested for drugs are arrested for possession. 50% of the federal prison population is in for drug offenses. I think those numbers show that it's not just the "bad guys" that are in jail. If you want to assume that all 20% are harmful, dangerous criminals, then that leaves 30% of the federal prison population as low level users.

Really not much to argue here, as I think we're all pretty much in line, the only problem is I can't see a leader in the forseeable future actually try and tackle this problem with smarts. If it's every even mentioned in a campaign it will be nothing but smear campaigns about the candidate is soft on crime and wants your kids to get hooked on drugs.

Also, as someone mentioned before, something has to be done about the prescribing of opiates. Doctors give them out way to easily and the people who take them do not understand the potential consequences. Lets say you get in a car crash, hurt your back and get prescribed 3 30mg painkillers a day (extremely easy to get) for 2 months. If you take the medicine exactly as the doctor prescribes and don't abuse, you are 99% coming out of that with problems going forward. The only things that can come of it are, 1, you will absolutely have withdrawal symptoms that will last multiple days and could have lingering effects for weeks, 2, you realize you have an addictive personality and become addicted to them 3, you get addicted and can no longer get your pain pills/afford to buy them from a dealer which leads you to heroin, 4 , you get prescribed another medicine that takes away the withdrawal effects but can also be addictive and have horrible withdrawal symptoms. Now that's with a pretty high dosage but all that can happen with 10mgs or any amount really. Not nearly enough is done on the prescribing end and people don't want anything to happen because it's a cash cow. Yes, it's ultimately on the consumer, but the consumer usually doesn't realize the effects before it's too late. People think that addiction is a choice and that it won't happen to them. What they don't realize is that these things mess with your body and make you physically dependent on them whether you like it or not.
 
Originally posted by selmore1:
I'm in line with bgranc. Over 80% of people who are arrested for drugs are arrested for possession. 50% of the federal prison population is in for drug offenses. I think those numbers show that it's not just the "bad guys" that are in jail. If you want to assume that all 20% are harmful, dangerous criminals, then that leaves 30% of the federal prison population as low level users.

Really not much to argue here, as I think we're all pretty much in line, the only problem is I can't see a leader in the forseeable future actually try and tackle this problem with smarts. If it's every even mentioned in a campaign it will be nothing but smear campaigns about the candidate is soft on crime and wants your kids to get hooked on drugs.

Also, as someone mentioned before, something has to be done about the prescribing of opiates. Doctors give them out way to easily and the people who take them do not understand the potential consequences. Lets say you get in a car crash, hurt your back and get prescribed 3 30mg painkillers a day (extremely easy to get) for 2 months. If you take the medicine exactly as the doctor prescribes and don't abuse, you are 99% coming out of that with problems going forward. The only things that can come of it are, 1, you will absolutely have withdrawal symptoms that will last multiple days and could have lingering effects for weeks, 2, you realize you have an addictive personality and become addicted to them 3, you get addicted and can no longer get your pain pills/afford to buy them from a dealer which leads you to heroin, 4 , you get prescribed another medicine that takes away the withdrawal effects but can also be addictive and have horrible withdrawal symptoms. Now that's with a pretty high dosage but all that can happen with 10mgs or any amount really. Not nearly enough is done on the prescribing end and people don't want anything to happen because it's a cash cow. Yes, it's ultimately on the consumer, but the consumer usually doesn't realize the effects before it's too late. People think that addiction is a choice and that it won't happen to them. What they don't realize is that these things mess with your body and make you physically dependent on them whether you like it or not.
Great points selmore, football players get addicted rather easily due to pain pills which at times leads to that heroin. The problem is, what do you do with these people if treatments don't work as they potentially become dangers to society? Prevention is great but a lot of those people are out there so prevention is no longer an option. Not a lot of good answers.
 
Yes, Tramadol is used pretty widely.

An example of what you're talking about would be Mexico. Now you think with all the drugs that flow through Mexico and crooked doctors there it would be easy to get right? Nope, it's almost impossible to get opiates in Mexico. They will only use it in hospitals and hardly, if ever prescribe it. A website I read said, "Despite Mexico's reputation as an easy place to buy pharmaceuticals, opioid pain relievers are as hard to get in México as weapons grade uranium is in the United States."
 
Do a lot of work with criminal justice system treating opioid abuse. We're beginning to see huge benefits on a drug called vivitrol. It's an opioid blocker that is now being piloted by Bureau of Prisons. Huge problem both in society and within the criminal justice system. However, reforms are coming to how we treat drug abusers. Long over due.
 
Originally posted by adp98:
Do a lot of work with the pharmaceutical lobby treating opioid abuse. We're beginning to see huge benefits on a drug called vivitrol. It's an opioid blocker that is now being piloted by Bureau of Prisons. Huge problem both in society and within the criminal justice system. However, reforms are coming to how we treat drug abusers. Long over due.
fixed.
 
Vitriol is a great thing. The more it becomes available and the easier access people have to it the better.
 
Originally posted by NickleDimer:

Originally posted by adp98:
Do a lot of work with the pharmaceutical lobby treating opioid abuse. We're beginning to see huge benefits on a drug called vivitrol. It's an opioid blocker that is now being piloted by Bureau of Prisons. Huge problem both in society and within the criminal justice system. However, reforms are coming to how we treat drug abusers. Long over due.
fixed.
Yesterday I actually participated in the launching of a Public Policy program myself, the school and two other alums launched here in DC for Villanova. The title of our first forum was around criminal justice reform and drug abusers. Had Karen Moyer testify on her foundation's role and the work they do supporting families of drug addictcts and children. Lots of great work being done in this space by many dedicated people, myself included. The Villanova fall magazine will have a nice profile on it. Cool stuff. Sometimes learning a thing or two about the people you stereo-type is important so you have a semblence of a clue on what you speak. Or you can continue through life being the turd in the punch bowl while judging others based on nothing but your own synical view of the world.
 
Originally posted by NickleDimer:

Originally posted by selmore1:
Vitriol is a great thing. The more it becomes available and the easier access people have to it the better.
I do a lot of work with one of the world's largest manufacturers of it. It's a great solution for a lot of tough situations.
There is only one manufacturer and they are very small biotech outside of Boston.
 
Originally posted by adp98:
Originally posted by NickleDimer:

Originally posted by selmore1:
Vitriol is a great thing. The more it becomes available and the easier access people have to it the better.
I do a lot of work with one of the world's largest manufacturers of it. It's a great solution for a lot of tough situations.
There is only one manufacturer and they are very small biotech outside of Boston.
whiff-o.gif
 
ADP, pretty sure he was just doing a play on words because I called it vitriol instead of vivitrol. But congrats ADP, that's a very worthy cause.
 
Originally posted by adp98:
Yesterday I actually participated in the launching of a Public Policy program myself, the school and two other alums launched here in DC for Villanova. The title of our first forum was around criminal justice reform and drug abusers. Had Karen Moyer testify on her foundation's role and the work they do supporting families of drug addictcts and children. Lots of great work being done in this space by many dedicated people, myself included. The Villanova fall magazine will have a nice profile on it. Cool stuff. Sometimes learning a thing or two about the people you stereo-type is important so you have a semblence of a clue on what you speak. Or you can continue through life being the turd in the punch bowl while judging others based on nothing but your own synical view of the world.
Congrats on going deep undercover for your clients in "charity work". Was there a bonus for getting their drug rolled out by a government agency?
 
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