GOP Debate
- Thread starter Burrs5
- Start date
I'm still waiting to hear who tjc wants and who he thinks is going to win. My guess is he won't say who he wants until they win the ticket. He also won't predict who wins.
i gdogged the shit out of rubio
of course the party establishment is terrified of trump. they have zero control over him, and it's still unclear just how short of completely serious his campaign is
jeb got a crucial endorsement from his own mother. that entire f--king family is disgusting, and the clintons love them
of course the party establishment is terrified of trump. they have zero control over him, and it's still unclear just how short of completely serious his campaign is
jeb got a crucial endorsement from his own mother. that entire f--king family is disgusting, and the clintons love them
Some of these loons are gonna have to wait until Super Tuesday to drop off. What a sad state of affairs that this is the best our country has to offer its citizens as a candidate for our next President (and look at the other side of the aisle).
I don't if there is anything that scares me more than people who vote because of what a pastor or a priest says.
Yes. They are no different than me listening to what the tooth fairy has to say and follow that vote.
adp, this blurb captures my thoughts perfectly...
"Pollster Frank Luntz, who for years has helped Republicans carefully calibrate their language to appeal to a broad range of voters, was aghast.
“If 10-year-old kids spoke to their teachers the way those candidates spoke to each other, those kids would be suspended,” he said. “There is no way that any independent observer can say the Republicans gained a single vote against the Democrats because of last night. If you’re honest and unbiased, the GOP lost votes last night.”
Your thoughts on the GOP race today?
"Pollster Frank Luntz, who for years has helped Republicans carefully calibrate their language to appeal to a broad range of voters, was aghast.
“If 10-year-old kids spoke to their teachers the way those candidates spoke to each other, those kids would be suspended,” he said. “There is no way that any independent observer can say the Republicans gained a single vote against the Democrats because of last night. If you’re honest and unbiased, the GOP lost votes last night.”
Your thoughts on the GOP race today?
I didn't watch the debate and don't believe anyone will remember when casting their ballots in 9 months. However, Frank is pretty good at his job and if the election was held right after the debate I'm sure he's right.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Let me add, from reading the reports I'd have to agree with him. Trump has completely altered the tone of this race. It's really ashamed but he's tapped into voter sentiment so it's not going away. Similar to Sanders and his rage against the free market/economy. Trump's is simply channeling the angry white man syndrome that has been festering with each black lives matters protest/Beyonce performance.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
It's very Trumpian to equate the plight of economically stable white men with racial and economic issues. Let's have a Men's Rights rally while we're at it!
It's simply pandering to another base. One just seems more righteous. In Bernie's case is genuine, in HRC's case is intellectual dishonestly to the highest form. In Trump's case I'm inclined to think he believes it as well. You call these people the unwashed masses and now they are economically stable? Aren't you from upstate NY? You should realize there are entire regions who feel left behind as well. It's just not popular to point them out one because they happen to be white. My old hometown in WV, similar to update NY, is an opioid infused place that time has left behind. Trump is tapping into those towns. We can all agree the rhetoric isn't great but people tend to look past these groups or call them unwashed masses yet pander to millionaires protesting during halftime shows. The lack of understanding this dynamic is what makes Trump's message more powerful.
And here I thought it was the Mexicans that were getting the angry white man's dander up.
Those as well. It's the idea that the gov/others are leaving them behind at the expense of others. When you listen to the PC and political rhetoric, it's understandable. People who are disenfranchised look to blame. That's what you are seeing with these protests. The Tea Party has morphed into this in many ways. Again, these are not my views but failing to understand they exist on a wide scale and why is ignorant. You have two political parties pandering to each extreme. Which is why if they nominate the extremes in their party you have a good chance of Bloomberg running up the middle.
This weekend I was up in the CoDB with all my liberal family. It was pretty funny because they believe if Bloomberg gets in the "smart vote" will be divided and the GOP wins. It's so insulting and permeates a viewpoint that is widely held on the left. It's part of the backlash among moderates. If you don't agree with their view you're not part of the "smart" crowd. Note, this was own father saying as much. And my father and I have a great relationship and he's a wonderful person.
So I'm confused. Isn't that a "socialist" viewpoint? Are you telling me the base group of the GOP (white men) are looking for more help from their government? Sounds to me like its different sides of the same coin.
No, they aren't asking for government help but simply asking government to quit writing the rules to favor another set of people. It's similar to Sanders but playing to another set of values. It would help if you got beyond your own viewpoint to try and understand what those who don't think like you are feeling/saying/believing. They don't want government to be the answer. This is where Trump's anti-trade and anti-immigrant policies play well. The idea being the government has left them through trade and immigration to take their jobs etc....
Last edited:
See above, I just edited. Specifically this is where the anti-trade and anti-immigration polices Trump is touting play very well. The idea these government policies have resulted in their jobs being outsourced or taken. If you are from or lived in this part of the country it's an easy sell to these people (same argument Sanders is making). Now, of course they want their government benefits as well. Everyone wants something for free. Be it healthcare, college, roads, bridges etc....give me mine and someone else can pay for it. Just like Trump's Mexican Wall.
Last edited:
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
1) "seems more righteous" - because they are factual claims as opposed to fear mongering - the immigrants and refugees are going to take what little you have (not BIG BUSINESS)
2) Upstate NY has been part of an aggressive initiative by noted socialist Andrew Cuomo to bring tech companies there. Lots of corporate handouts! Billions.
3) What is trump tapping into? That their lives suck and he has absolutely no plan to change that. But at least they won't have to worry about Mexicans and Syrians taking the minimum wage dish washing jobs that they don't want anyway.
And how is the rhetoric on the other side changing anything? Seriously, they are both pedaling empty promises. You think we'll see free college soon? You think HRC is going to crackdown on all her Wall Street donors? We'll have no more capitalism and everything will be equal. Everyone who holds the same job will all make the same money regardless of ability to perform said job? I don't know how that's even possible. Everyone you work with doesn't make the same amount of money nor should they. C'mon, it's all empty rhetoric not based in anything changing.
ADP, in the future you could just use the condensed version of what you wrote above --- YAWN.
agree, the difference to me is we just have Trump and for the Dems this is their entire platform from both candidates. No original ideas just the same old tired class warfare garbage that has no chance of ever becoming law or even makes sense. And Rubio, the same guy who's parents didn't speak English, hates minorities. Doesn't quite fit the talking points I know.
Last edited:
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
A generalization of what I see:
GoP: fake solutions to problems, many of which don't exist
Dem: lousy solutions to problems that are exaggerated
GoP: fake solutions to problems, many of which don't exist
Dem: lousy solutions to problems that are exaggerated
Seems like a rather personal question. I have no idea if she was with Bill or Huma.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I'm offended that you think I would ever be a Bills fan.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Kemp's supply side tax policy was actual tax policy. Not straight handouts like he's doing now - "public-private partnerships" aka - public funds everything and takes all the risk. There's a difference between that and actually cutting taxes or granting abatements to encourage growth.
I thought Cuomo was doing a ton of tax incentives to companies. At least that's what I"m familiar with. I'm sure there is a mix of both. However, I"m not here to defend Cuomo's policies. I know he's gotten favorable reviews from both sides of the aisle so he must be doing something wrong.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Tax breaks are part of it - get that part. But there's also humongous subsidies. And they're for corporate monsters like GE and IBM. Not the "little guy". Just more of the corporate welfare game.
Ok, so your point is the Democrats love corporate welfare? Or are you simply out the fact as a Gov who has a real responsibility to help constituents in areas that are failing (upstate NY) the reality is you cannot attack job creators through rhetoric but you make concessions to attract more of them? Is that your point? If so, I agree. We'll call him Rick Perry without the low state taxes. Contrast what Cuomo has done with Del Blasio and their two styles and you see the difference in results between empty rhetoric on the left and people governing from the center and trying to get things done. You do need to tip your cap to Cuomo on this front. Chris Christie's boy. maybe they'll join forces in 2020.
ADP, you are obviously the closest person to this stuff. I don't doubt what you are saying and I think you might have some good backup. My question is do you think anything you say here will change anyone's mind. I know some loons (people who live in Florida), might say and post things on here and think that they might change people's minds. Do you think you would change anyone's mind with information?
Not a snowball's chance in heck. I'll take it a step further. I don't think for instance ND's serious. He and I probably agree on most of this stuff. Regardless, hopefully most people have an open mind and listen to what the actual candidates say and then make their own decision. However, we both know that's about as unlikely for most. People don't care as they have their own lives to live.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
No, the point is that supply side handouts are crap no matter which letter the governor has next to his name.
I do think what ADP says changes minds. I am a better, more informed person for knowing him (virtually). It's good to come on forums like these and stretch your legs in a consequence free conversation.