Question for the 76ers fans......

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

The sixers traded N. Vucevic several yrs ago and he has been a very serviceable big man for the magic ever since, ave. closer to 20 and 10.......
Good move or bad.......? They have been looking for a center since and now have Noel there, but I don't see Noel ever getting to where Vucevic is.....
Thoughts?

 

[Burrs5]

No, Noel will never have the offensive skill set that Vucevic has. Yes, Noel is better defensively in his sleep than Vucevic is. His 20/10 hasn't made the Magic good. He's a poor man's EC version of D. Cousins. Coming into this season the Magic have avg'd under 23 wins (3 years) since he's been there.

A different regime made that trade.

 

[adp98]

He's a better version of the guy we tanked an entire season to get, Okafor.

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Burrs
I know but the sixers have been trying to build a team for yrs, wouldn't this have been a good part to have kept?

 

[Burrs5]

He's a better version of the guy we tanked an entire season to get, Okafor.

Maybe. He played three years of college and is 5 1/2 years older. Let's revisit after Okafor plays five years in this league. Of course, I can count on you to discount those facts like they don't matter.

 

[Burrs5]

Burrs
I know but the sixers have been trying to build a team for yrs, wouldn't this have been a good part to have kept?

I don't know. Possibly, I guess.

Different people have been trying. I can't worry about a transaction that was made before the current guys watch. If we're going to do that, then let's go back to Larry Hughes over Paul Pierce.

 

[nardibynature2]

Let's wait and see, too soon to tell, talk to me is 15 years.

 

[NickleDimer]

Let's revisit after Okafor plays five years in this league.

 

[NickleDimer]

If we're going to do that, then let's go back to Larry Hughes over Paul Pierce.

No. It makes sense to limit the conversation to players that the 76ers could still easily have under their control if their past and current GM didn't suck. Like Vucevic and Cousins.

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Burrs
I am not going back that far.....I know that it was different management, but what I am saying is that Vucevic is a very serviceable player........Could have eliminated drafting Noel and/or embid and having a more valuable player in their place.......
Every time I watch Noel, my reaction is that this kid will never be a player....

 

[NickleDimer]

Could have eliminated drafting Noel and/or embid and having a more valuable player in their place.......

Burrs' response: Who should they have drafted then?

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

They could have traded the pick and started the process of piling up picks.....Isn't that what they have been getting praised for???

 

[NickleDimer]

They could have traded the pick and started the process of piling up picks.....Isn't that what they have been getting praised for???

So trade the #7 pick and #3 pick for a likely worse pick in a later draft?

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Wait
2013 Draft from ESPN has Noel #6 and Carter-williams #11.......I cannot remember the order but I thought Noel was higher.
trade both for olidepo at #2? I don't know how to answer that because the draft wasn't great........But that is my point about drafts........They already got rid of carter-williams from that draft...

 

[NickleDimer]

Wait
2013 Draft from ESPN has Noel #6 and Carter-williams #11.......I cannot remember the order but I thought Noel was higher.
trade both for olidepo at #2? I don't know how to answer that because the draft wasn't great........But that is my point about drafts........They already got rid of carter-williams from that draft...

I'm just trying to prep you for the impending assault by Burrs. You better have an exact draft strategy backed by personal notes prior to each draft. Or he will dismiss you.

Just accept that it was too soon to tell then, it is too soon to tell now and it will always be too soon to tell.

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Oh........OK

 

[Burrs5]

It's not worth my time.

 

[Burrs5]

No. It makes sense to limit the conversation to players that the 76ers could still easily have under their control if their past and current GM didn't suck. Like Vucevic and Cousins.

No, it doesn't because two sets of crews made those decisions.

Again, Vucevic 23.5 wins per year. Cousins six years in and hasn't even sniffed the playoffs or anything close to a .500 record.

 

[nardibynature2]

No, it doesn't because two sets of crews made those decisions.

Again, Vucevic 23.5 wins per year. Cousins six years in and hasn't even sniffed the playoffs or anything close to a .500 record.

This is rich coming from a fan of a team that doesn't win more than 15 games a year on average over the past 4 years.

 

[Burrs5]

This is rich coming from a fan of a team that doesn't win more than 15 games a year on average over the past 4 years.

Incorrect. If the Sixers don't win another game this year their average is 19.8 over last four years.

You're missing the point. Posters referring to players that have lost tremendously since being in this league.

If the Sixers drafted Cousins they more than likely be Kings' east. It's taken Cousins 6 years to just be functional defensively. Vucevic is not a good defensive player either. No different than having Okafor except they're much older. Therefore, you box score watchers think they are something special.

 

[adp98]

So the guy we tanked an entire year to get is the same guy you could get at 15 in any random draft. Your words. Again, i rest my case.

 

[Burrs5]

So the guy we tanked an entire year to get is the same guy you could get at 15 in any random draft. Your words. Again, i rest my case.

What are you taking about?

 

[adp98]

Incorrect. If the Sixers don't win another game this year their average is 19.8 over last four years.

You're missing the point. Posters referring to players that have lost tremendously since being in this league.

If the Sixers drafted Cousins they more than likely be Kings' east. It's taken Cousins 6 years to just be functional defensively. Vucevic is not a good defensive player either. No different than having Okafor except they're much older. Therefore, you box score watchers think they are something special.

Read above, vucevic is no different than having okafor. We tanked to get okafor.

 

[Burrs5]

Read above, vucevic is no different than having okafor. We tanked to get okafor.

Except 5.5 years younger. Unlike you I don't consider 20-year old rookies finished projects after 50 games.

Plus, I told you before. He will eventually be moved for something that fits better.

There has been no reason to throw around 4/5 year contracts on 2nd/3rd tier FAs.

Process is not only about just getting the highest pick and keeping your fingers crossed. It involves more than that.

Again, you take over team tomorrow. How would you proceed? I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

 

[NickleDimer]

Excuses!? I've got excuses coming out the wazooo!
Results? They can wait, but I promise that they're definitely coming.

 

[tomdudes]

Is vucevic one of this guys that, because he is on a bad team, gets numbers because somebody has to? I don't know the answer but I still regret the trade that Harold Katz made for Roy Hinson., who was the ultimate "good guy on a bad team" that couldn't do squat on a good team.

 

[CWertz]

Noel is on the worst team in the league and still barely averages double figures. Vucevic certainly isn't great and is below average on defense but he sure did light up the Sixers the other night with defensive stud Noel on the floor.

Yes, the year the Sixers drafted Noel, the draft was horrendous but still remains the same, Nerlens is nothing special.

 

[Vicks99]

Except 5.5 years younger. Unlike you I don't consider 20-year old rookies finished projects after 50 games.

Plus, I told you before. He will eventually be moved for something that fits better.

There has been no reason to throw around 4/5 year contracts on 2nd/3rd tier FAs.

Process is not only about just getting the highest pick and keeping your fingers crossed. It involves more than that.

Again, you take over team tomorrow. How would you proceed? I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

Can you please then rank order your choice of actual available head coaches, 1 thru 10? And also, all places they coached previously? Thanks. #anotherburrshomeworkassignment

 

[adp98]

"he will be moved for something that fits better" = selling a tanked season for .40 cents on the $ = #trust the process. Goodness man, you would be the worst defense lawyer in history.

 

[Burrs5]

Can you please then rank order your choice of actual available head coaches, 1 thru 10? And also, all places they coached previously? Thanks. #anotherburrshomeworkassignment

Why?

 

[nardibynature2]

Noel is on the worst team in the league and still barely averages double figures. Vucevic certainly isn't great and is below average on defense but he sure did light up the Sixers the other night with defensive stud Noel on the floor.

Yes, the year the Sixers drafted Noel, the draft was horrendous but still remains the same, Nerlens is nothing special.

Nailed it (animal mother). I love these CoP'ers who are saying that these other guys are on bad teams...clearly they don't count their team in the discussion. It is almost like they think the Sixers have been just a bad dream for the last 3 years and they don't count in real life.

 

[Burrs5]

Nailed it (animal mother). I love these CoP'ers who are saying that these other guys are on bad teams...clearly they don't count their team in the discussion. It is almost like they think the Sixers have been just a bad dream for the last 3 years and they don't count in real life.

No, the point is that they are all on bad teams. So, when people said they could have this guy or that guy, then I wonder if they ever bother to look at how much winning said players have done.

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Burrs
Saying they are on bad teams that have not won ( vucevic and cousins ) doesn't mean they are bad players.......And either one would be better then anyone the sixers currently have.....
I didn't have a problem getting rid of carter-williams even though he was a first round top15 pick, but I thought Vucevic has been a very serviceable big since the trade...

 

[CWertz]

No, the point is that they are all on bad teams. So, when people said they could have this guy or that guy, then I wonder if they ever bother to look at how much winning said players have done.

What is Noel's upside? Is he a PF or C? Seems to be small from a weight standpoint to play center and limited offensively to play Power Forward. I know he is young and will fill out and possibly get a better jump shot. Do you see him being a Tyson Chandler type? Just don't know if he can even get to Chandler's level. We have to hope he can.

 

[adp98]

IMO, given the way is being played Noel's better position is center for the following. First, he's not great at the 4 and unless your big guy is a very good face up shooter to 20 feet, playing Noel with another space eater really hurts spacing offensively. Defensively I believe he's better as a 5 because 4's will take him away from the hoop which limits his rim protection and rebounding; two of his better (best) qualities. Which is why he's not a very good fit with Okafor and forget it if we ever actually get somthing from Embiid.

 

[CWertz]

IMO, given the way is being played Noel's better position is center for the following. First, he's not great at the 4 and unless your big guy is a very good face up shooter to 20 feet, playing Noel with another space eater really hurts spacing offensively. Defensively I believe he's better as a 5 because 4's will take him away from the hoop which limits his rim protection and rebounding; two of his better (best) qualities. Which is why he's not a very good fit with Okafor and forget it if we ever actually get somthing from Embiid.

If hes going to be a 5, he better bulk up because I have seen average big men eat him up. Guys like Gortat, Vucevic, etc... He gets some decent defensive stats when he plays but at the end of the day, generally does not stop the opposing center. Forget it when he plays against monsters like Jordan and Drummond.

 

[tomdudes]

Noel seems like he is better in the role of weak side help defender as opposed to straight up man to man defender.

 

[Burrs5]

Burrs
Saying they are on bad teams that have not won ( vucevic and cousins ) doesn't mean they are bad players.......And either one would be better then anyone the sixers currently have.....
I didn't have a problem getting rid of carter-williams even though he was a first round top15 pick, but I thought Vucevic has been a very serviceable big since the trade...

I agree that Vucevic has been a serviceable player. Actually, he's probably better than that. And I'm not saying they are bad players. What I'm saying if they were on this team right now, how much better would the Sixers actually be? They both play with better players now and neither sniff being .500.

I agree they are better (clearly), but being in the league 5/6 years each helps that. Not really fair to compare them to players that are rookies or a 1 1/2 years in.

We never got a good look at Vucevic as rookie (thanks Doug Collins) and then the last GM traded him. I can't pin that on Hinkie.

 

[Burrs5]

What is Noel's upside? Is he a PF or C? Seems to be small from a weight standpoint to play center and limited offensively to play Power Forward. I know he is young and will fill out and possibly get a better jump shot. Do you see him being a Tyson Chandler type? Just don't know if he can even get to Chandler's level. We have to hope he can.

I think his ceiling offensively is 4th/5th option, between 10-13 ppg. just a guy who rolls to rim and runs the floor. A more athletic Noah. A guy who can influence games ina more subtle way. Solid rebounder and very good defensive player on a good team. The type of player that every winning teams need. Chasing around stretch fours is not good for him.

 

[nardibynature2]

Burrs, if your theory is that Vucevic is getting his numbers because he is on a bad Orlando team then how much better would his numbers be on the worst team in the NBA?