These kinds if things have been commonplace for years but are filally being covered by mainstream media. Americans are complicit in our unconditional support. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/01/opinions/abukhdeir-palestinian-beating-case/index.html
Time to take a stand against Israel?
- Thread starter FatPhilM
- Start date
Depends what you mean by take a stand. Still think the US should support the country but yes they can be called out for these things if they're common place. Dynamic is probably similar to US police. Largely good people doing awful work where they are at times attacked just for being there, and then some of them "break" or are bad apples and act out wrongly. Doesn't mean the whole country/system is the enemy.
What she didn't mention is that the little miscreant was throwing rocks at said police. If you're out there throwing rocks at cops, you probably shouldn't expect nice treatment. He shouldn't have been beaten like he was, but it wasn't like he was targeted randomly.
The Israel-US relationship is worth examining, but until Israel isn't the only stable democracy in the Middle East (with the possible exception of Jordan), the time isn't now. Also, as long as the Khartoum Resolution (the policy of three no's) is adhered to by most Arab states, protecting Israel's security is necessary.
The Israel-US relationship is worth examining, but until Israel isn't the only stable democracy in the Middle East (with the possible exception of Jordan), the time isn't now. Also, as long as the Khartoum Resolution (the policy of three no's) is adhered to by most Arab states, protecting Israel's security is necessary.
He is a miscreant by expressing his outrage after his cousin was killed? I'd throw rocks too.
The apartheid talking point is bullshit. There are Arab citizens with full rights in Israel, and their conditions have only improved under Bibi Netanyahu.
I don't think he is talking about arab citizens. I think he is referring to all of the Palestinians refugees struggling to survive outside the green line. You know, the ones who continue to be displaced by illegal settlements. The same ones that can't go anywhere without being detained at Israeli checkpoints.
The Arab citizens are no threat to the Israeli establishment because they are such a minority that it is harmless to allow them to cast meaningless votes in elections. Not to mention their inferior social status.
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I have a friend who spent 3 years in an isreali prison when he was a kid for alleging throwing a rock at police. He says he never threw the rock. He know lives in America and is a successful business man. 3 years of your life for throwing a rock.
The topic is even getting some neutral coverage in the rag of the CoP. I was not an Obama but his handling of the situation may be his chance to leave a positive legacy. Maybe he'll have the balls to support U.N. resolutions critical of Israel. That, alone, would signal a monumental shift. http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news/homepage/&id=306300421
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It would also signal a green light to terrorists and hostile governments to attack Israel. Do you really want to see the kind of war that would unleash? Do you really want another Holocaust?
So, you think if Israel is attacked, ISIL or Iran will send all the Jews to Disneyland? I don't need to get a grip but you need to get a handle on Mideast events/conditions.
Only country in the world after World War II that is genuinely good at fighting wars. The Pentagon should take notes.
It's pretty easy to be "good at fighting wars" when you have the US supplying you with all your money and weapons. Israelis have been slaughtering Palestinians for decades, the numbers are pretty staggering (especially in 2014). It's a mini-genocide, of course people are afraid to label it that way because of the parties involved.
The Israelis won First Arab-Israeli war despite being subject to an arms embargo.
Israel really doesn't need our weapons that much. We supply them weapons anyway, but they really don't. On a man for man basis, they have the most capable military in the world and they make better arms than just about any other country on earth.
Israel really doesn't need our weapons that much. We supply them weapons anyway, but they really don't. On a man for man basis, they have the most capable military in the world and they make better arms than just about any other country on earth.
So, the underground tunnels from Gaza to Israeli towns for suicide bombers to kill people don't count? Speaking of suicide bombers, when's the last time an Israeli suicide bomber attacked Palestinians? How about rockets launched at Israeli towns, schools, etc. from Hamas?
Tjc,
Please tell me the number of civilian Palestinians killed by israelis. Then please tell me the number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians.
Those "missiles" being fired by Palestinians haven't hurt anyone in years.
It's like bringing a fly swatter to a gunfight.
Please tell me the number of civilian Palestinians killed by israelis. Then please tell me the number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians.
Those "missiles" being fired by Palestinians haven't hurt anyone in years.
It's like bringing a fly swatter to a gunfight.
Obviously, more Palestinians have been killed. But, I'm still waiting for your answers re: tunnels, suicide bombers, etc. Just give me one example where Israel struck the Palestinians first and weren't just responding to an attack.
A hugely disproportionate percentage of Palestinian casualties in recent years have been males of fighting age.
Civilians are dying, but it's nothing close to a genocide. Also, it's pretty hard to classify someone as a combatant when the opponents aren't wearing clearly identifiable uniforms.
Israeli's willingness to use overwhelming force is absolutely a problem, but if Hamas and Islamic Jihad were to agree to a permanent ceasefire that held, the situation would vastly improve.
I agree with your post except the fact about Israel using overwhelming force. This is an existential situation for Israel. The only thing terror groups understand is massive force & death. The half assed approach to ISIS and the resulting failure to contain them is proof that anything short of massive force doesn't work.
tjc..........this says it all.........no further explanation is needed.........This country needs a President and a Congress that are all ball-breakers and ass-kickers. Unfortunately this is unlikely to ever happen......
I watch zero Fox News. For Israel news, I generally read Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Times of Israel articles and tr to take a stab as to which is most correct. It's unscientific, but it works for me.
Why would I read a news source from an area where there isn't a free press?
News from the PA/Gaza Strip is about as reliable as anything you'd see on state television in a despotic state.
By definition, what the Israelis are doing to Palestinians is a genocide.
Genocide:
"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."
They've killed thousands of civilians/children because of their ethnicity. There are hundreds of accounts of murder, torture and kidnapping. How can anyone blame 12-15 year old kids for throwing rocks at these people?
This is not an existential situation for Israel. And using "massive force" against innocent civilians doesn't solve the problem -- it makes it worse.
No, there is nothing existential about it for Israel. The Palestinians are suppremely out gunned. They are impoverished and malnourished. They search for potable water accross a fence from the swimming pools of settlers.
There really are a lot of parallels with the Nazi regime. (Obscene ethnic pride, a desire for a homogeneous population, forced military service, subrogation of the minorities and confinement of them to ghettos, etc.).
Israel's dilema is that they will not give up the occupied lands voluntarily - particularly East Jerusalem. The majority do not want two states and will never give in to two states in the manner recommended by the UN (i.e. pre-1967 borders). A single state that the zionists want has a demographic problem in that there are too many arab residents outside of present Israel that would prevent an expanded Israel from being a Jewish state. The world won't permit genocide so they have resorted to occupation and displacement. The goal is to starve and oppress the Palestinians into seeking refuge in Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.
There really are a lot of parallels with the Nazi regime. (Obscene ethnic pride, a desire for a homogeneous population, forced military service, subrogation of the minorities and confinement of them to ghettos, etc.).
Israel's dilema is that they will not give up the occupied lands voluntarily - particularly East Jerusalem. The majority do not want two states and will never give in to two states in the manner recommended by the UN (i.e. pre-1967 borders). A single state that the zionists want has a demographic problem in that there are too many arab residents outside of present Israel that would prevent an expanded Israel from being a Jewish state. The world won't permit genocide so they have resorted to occupation and displacement. The goal is to starve and oppress the Palestinians into seeking refuge in Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.
And we let it happen. Is there any other national lobby in the U.S. with 1/10th the influence of AIPAC? Is there any other country with anywhere near the number of U.S. politicians and policymakers with dual citizenship as with U.S. - Israel dual citizenship? Seriously, it is scary. I am generally a conservative lean but our government and media have been infiltrated by people with a foreign agenda.
And before someone starts with the tired claim of anti-semitism, there are plenty of American Jews who agree with this sentiment.
And before someone starts with the tired claim of anti-semitism, there are plenty of American Jews who agree with this sentiment.
How about those poor mistreated leaders of Fatah & Hamas changing their charters to allow for recognition of the state of Israel and not call for the destruction of Israel as part of their policy. Or is that the Israelis fault too? There are two sides to this story as is the case for most stories. You can't have a reasonable discussion if you don't acknowledge one of the main causes for the conflict. I'd say having a constitution that calls for the annihilation of Israel is a pretty important consideration in calling it an existential problem for Israel.