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Big East and Football

R

rb nova

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May 17, 2003
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I was surprised to see only 3 BE schools field a football team:
Villanova: CAA
Georgetown: Patriot
Butler: Pioneer (who knew!)

Why is this? Is it a funding and / or priority issue? Title IX?

Does fully funding FCS football put Villanova at a disadvantage to its peers?

Football has a loyal, but very small following at Villanova (look at attendance figures)

Coach Talley has been a great ambassador to the University. As he approaches retirement, will the school revisit the commitment to football when he hangs it up?

Does Villanova really want to be the only BE school fully funding FCS football when the broader University community doesn't support the product? I'm not sure.
 
Can you guys just put the same old topic into 1 thread? We all get the onslaught is never going to stop, but at least put it all in 1 thread.

Maybe we can get the administrator to start your own forum and you guys can all leave this to football. I feel for all the players that have to come here to see the same bs they get from you guys.

We get it. You aren't going away, but maybe you can have your own pity party forum until you get your way.

Spring ball is on, recruits are coming in, a promise for a great season.

Have your say. Just go do it somewhere else. Remember those 80+ players are from your school & don't deserve to see your same rants day after day.

It's obvious that administration to date doesnt see it your way.

This post was edited on 4/12 9:50 AM by Gangtackle11
 
This is a forum to discuss all aspects of Villanova football.

I support the team because it is my school. Coach Talley has done tremendous things with the bone marrow work. However, I do find it interesting that out of 10 Big East schools, only one is making a commitment to FCS football.

Isn't that a legitimate question to ask?
 
It is a fair question. What is the compelling reason to fully fund football (scholarship wise)? We are not a CAA school, we are a Big East school. I am not trying to be a troll or a pest. I just want to understand the reasoning that drives us to fully fund.
 
Didn't say it wasn't a legitimate question. It's 1 that pops up in some shape or form every few days it seems.

The posters of the pros & cons both don't have the all encompassing legitimate answer including me a pro.

I'm in the camp that FCS football isn't such an evil place that cons like you believe it is if not play at P5 level.

No one has proved that the program funding 63 full scholarships is actually a drain because the counter argument is there are well healed supporters like the $10 million donation for the new Football mostly facility. The football HC is endowed and remember if 63 men's scholarships are eliminated or reduced it could reduce the amount of women athletic scholarships.

There are well over 100+ FCS programs playing football. Some must think football is worth it. No?

It appears to me that football has been able to fund enough of it's reportedly $5-6 million deficit to keep the detractors at bay where it counts with current administration & Board of Trustees.
 
Putting aside the financial issues, should a top academic institution really be encouraging young students to participate in an activity that study after study indicates causes head trauma?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
You will be eliminating a lot more sports than football. Look at the numbers in soccer & lacrosse for instance. Hockey is the new passion on their site. Look at the research. Football is the leader, but plenty of sports given a pass not far behind. You may be surprised. Looks like spelling bees is your best bet.
 
I was referring to head injuries not cost.

I also on record that if costs minus donations is deemed out of control that I would support Patriot League football, but not like Georgetown. Scholarships in Patriot to remain competitive, but I like the teams better than the CAA. Of course,until someone proves to me that the losses are what some state it really isn't a conversation to entertain.


This post was edited on 4/12 1:48 PM by Gangtackle11
 
Operating budgets

Butler - $875k
Georgetown - $1.6 mill



Brown - $2 mill
Columbia - $3.2 mill
Cornell - $2.8 mill
Dartmouth - $3 mill
Harvard - $2.7 mill
Penn - $2.3 mill
Princeton - $2.5 mill
Yale - $3.2 mill


Villanova - $6.2 mill
 
Originally posted by LetsGoNova:
Way to cherry pick your data, ball. Let's see Lehigh.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
Sure

lehigh spends $4.3 mill on football.

Heck, even reducing expenses to lehigh's level would allow us to fully fund soccer and lacrosse.

Thanks is for pointing out Lehigh to us all.
 
Here is the patriot league

Georgetown $1.6
Lehigh $4.3
Bucknell $3.3
Fordham $5.7
Colgate $4.5
Holy Cross $4.6
Lafayette $4.6

All but one patriot league school are two million less than nova football. Put that $2 mill into soccer and we suddenly become one of the big boys nationally.


It should also be noted that for the 7 men's teams besides basketball and football only have a total combined operating budget of $4 mill. That's right, football costs 50% more than all of our other non-revenue sports combined. Ouch.
 
Delaware, Villanova, W+M, Richmond, JMU all in top 10 between $5-6.5
million.

Patriot has Fordham in top 10 over $5 million & Colgate,Lehigh, Lafayette ,& HC not far behind in top 25. All over $4 million.

I'm not sure the Patriot League has factored in totally the ramp up in scholarships.

I guess it costs $4-6million to play Patriot/FCS & be competitive.



This post was edited on 4/12 8:35 PM by Gangtackle11
 
If we could move to the Patriot, and spend $4 million on football, I'd make that move in a heartbeat. That extra $2 million spent to fully fund lacrosse and soccer would be perfect.

Also, I could care less about the teams we play in the CAA. I'd actually be interested in games against Patriot schools.
 
I wonder what the true cash operating number is excluding scholarships. To me, that is the real cost of operating the program (salaries, travel, etc).

It does seem that the Patriot League is a more natural geographic and peer institution fit.
 
I would be for a move to the Patriot as a way to potentially boost attendance (local rivals in Lehigh and Lafayette) and for a better institutional fit, but those hoping to save $$ with such a move will be disappointed. First, the Patriot league schools are ramping up spending quite quickly, and the top programs are already approaching the average CAA program spend. Second, and this is the point that ball always chooses to ignore, the shortfall in football--as well as in every sport not named men's basketball--is made up by a transfer from the general fund. If football's deficit closes, that transfer would simply get smaller. There is no guarantee at all that that money would suddenly be available to fund men's lax, or soccer, or whatever country club sport du jour Villanova should become a "force" in.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I'd be fine with the eventual move to the Patriot as it is now closed the scholarship & spending gap with the CAA. I too like the teams that Villanova would play and they can keep key FBS & regional FCS opponents like Delaware. They would be required to use the academic eligibility system used by the Patriot which would make it more difficult to get a borderline athlete in, but at the end of the day it's not a bad fit if change is mandated someday. Much better than the d3 or drop altogether options.
 
Oh, for those of you not on the pay board, ball's qwe alt has been banned and those other posts removed. Hopefully this lets us keep having a real discussion for a while before he re-registers.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Remember that the head football coach's position is endowed. Biggest salary in the program.
 
Is Butler really bad? I didn't even know they had a team. That Pioneer league is weird - stretches from California to Florida.

With the Danko connection, surprised Nova hasn't scheduled them? I guess the travel isn't worth it for the Bulldogs.
 
I may have used the word "force", I really can't remember. If I did I was just getting ahead of myself thinking of us being a regular participant in the lacrosse NCAA tourney. Nothing is guaranteed if we reduced funding for football. I get that.
 
No athletic scholarships in PFL.

This post was edited on 4/13 11:25 AM by Gangtackle11
 
USMC, I would love to see us double down on lax and soccer and any other sport for that matter. My position has always been, however, that we can only get there through growth, not expense reduction. Recruit new supporters for those programs and athletics in general, cultivate existing donors to new levels, make the right coaching hires.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
rbnova Butler is not nearly as good as Nova in football. They do field an FCS team, but not that good.
 
Originally posted by UncleEd:

rbnova Butler is not nearly as good as Nova in football. They do field an FCS team, but not that good.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Gangtackle pointed out that they play in a non scholarship league.
 
Steve91-96 You don't like VU playing Delaware, W&M and Richmond? All CAA teams. All very good academic schools.
 
Originally posted by UncleEd:

Steve91-96 You don't like VU playing Delaware, W&M and Richmond? All CAA teams. All very good academic schools.
Click to expand...
Ed-

Those 3 teams could make a very nice out of conference schedule.
 
I entered VU in '88 & always enjoyed that total University feel; where my school had great academics as well as a big time BB program & a D1-AA football program. I first visited VU at 12, went to a FB (then !-A) practice, met Howie Long, went out to lunch with my neighbor (then Alumni Assoc. President Don Creamer), my younger brother, & Howie at Wayne Tavern. I was happy VU brought FB back, albeit at the 1-AA level, & attended every home & away game (was a cheerleader for 3+ years) & loved it. Glad they terminated the wrestling program (I hated the Team Foxcatcher & John DuPont). I never realized all that drama with them would be in a movie 25 years later ...lol
 
Interesting, and true, story. About 10-15 years ago, Nova approached the other CAA football, then A10, schools about reducing football scholarships across the conference. I believe Nova proposed dropping max scholarships to 45 across the conference. Proposal was meant with strong opposition from schools like Delaware, JMU, UMass, etc. other ADs told Nova that they could drop to 45 if they wanted but most others did not want to because they wanted to compete for a IAA natl title and 45 would not let them compete against other conferences.
 
The Big East only has 7 baseball playing members and 5 lacrosse playing members (excluding Denver). Maybe its time to reconsider our membership in such a rag-tag outfit.
 
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