NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
The guy who distributed a 13 page manifesto on his way out the door FINALLY speaks!
NBA Free Agency
- Thread starter Burrs5
- Start date
Classic.
Seemed like the writer really had no choice on how the article was going to go. He was #TeamProcess and not once challenged or did any basic diligence as a legitimate reporter would.
Loved the part where he slobbered over Hinkie's scouting prowess. Really funny stuff.
Ah mea culpa on the college injuries.
Completely forgot about Wade somehow. Thought Horford and Pierce were sophomores. Noah and Deron I don't consider on the same level as even Horford and Pierce but also great players when they peaked.
Damian Lillard is another 3rd year guy I believe. Point is - it's rare, and if teams consider a 19 and 21 year old equal - they'll usually take the 19 year old.
According to ESPN today the Sixers are gonna make a big push for H. Barnes and Crabbe--------either one would be a nice fit for the Sixers to speed up the process and add some much needed perimeter talent and experience to the team. They have plenty of money to spend so its not really an issue, and even if Barnes demands max money, its something I think they probably will seriously consider. I also heard that Saric told the Sixers today that he's definitely coming over this year----which is another plus!!
I thought Lilliard was a four year player? Could be wrong.
All these players made an all NBA team in the last decade, Noah was even top 5 in MVP voting in 2014, but has been plagued by injuries the last year or two. Deron was a two time all NBA second team. So at some point they were top line players.
I think what you see is more that kids talented enough to be drafted that high usually don't risk it and return to school, rather than a discount applied by GMs based on age. So, by the time a kid who has the size, skill, and athleticism to be drafted in the NBA first round is draft eligible, he will usually choose to leave early rather than stay and risk injury. It's a sampling bias more than a GM bias in my opinion. There's just less of them by the time you get to year 3. If a guy like KD stayed a few more years because he loved college or wanted his degree, he wouldn't be discounted because he is two years older.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
You are not wrong. I have figured out a way to research things like this.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/damian-lillard-1.html
Counterpoint: Gerry McNamara and Ryan Arcidiacono. Both stayed 4 years - both not lottery picks.
Slam dunk.
Haha that helps my sampling bias no? I mean it's all part of the same deal, with issues blending into one another. You can add Scottie Reynolds to your side too.
What I think, all else being equal, is that a player who is deemed to have the requisite skills, size, athleticism, etc, will be drafted roughly the same whether he's 21,22 or 18. It's just that hose traits are usually identified early, and with a big pay day awaiting, very few if any actually stay 3-4 years, so the selection pool of those players is lower.
I don't google things. I'm trying to distinguish myself from the typical millennial
The bigger issue is the rookie wage scale changed the game. The goal is to get your 2nd and 3rd contract more quickly. When rookies were signing huge deals it made sense to come out when you were ready to be drafted higher. Now teams aren't as scared to draft on potential because the economic risk is much less. However, I sensed a change this year where you so many teams drafting euro's simply to stash and not pay them. Guys like Donta Davis would have come a lot higher. It will be interesting to see if this was a one year thing or more of a trend.
I was just kidding. Your post was a pretty thorough shellacking of my theories. Only possible retort was irony
With the salary cap going up, this rookie class will actually be relatively cheap compared to next years. I was surprised so many draft and stashes went through. This years rookies got boned a bit.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Speaking of Noah - 18m/year to the Knicks, letting Porzingis forget about defense and adds a good passed for Jackson's system (if he can stay healthy). Wish Jo and Noah all the luck in the world. If they can stay healthy they are two very fun players to watch.
Phil Jackson may as well fire himself with these moves he's making. What the hell is he doing? Trying to make a run at Lebron with the corpse of Noah and DRose who plays half the games and the ones he plays at half speed? These moves are truly terrible. Not a chance in hell this team competes in the East let alone challenge the Cavs. Signing Noah's corpse is one thing. Signing his corpse to a max contract is gross incompetence.
Rose was basically free, and even cleared a contract that no one really thought was great, giving up next to nothing for one year of a former MVP who has been productive, if not his old self, the last few years. Also fills a position of need that has been weak for the Knicks for a long, long time.
Noah is/was in demand. Pre Hoiberg he was a great player in the league, a perfect compliment to Porzingis, and keeps Melo happy most likely. Noah has interest from many, many teams, but wants to be in his hometown and with his friend D-Rose. Other GMs are basically being told there's no where he wants to be except for NYK.
multi year being reporter - won't know for sure for a few days, supposed to talk at midnight tonight per the Vertical.
Rose is hardly effective anymore. To stay on the court he has to play at half speed which defeats the entire purpose of his game. If he goes full tilt - he gets hurt. If he doesnt, he's mediocre. And he still sits a bunch of games. Noah is clearly slipping. You think Hoiberg is the reason for his crappy play last yr? Since when does the coach matter in the NBA. Ty Lue just won a chip. Unless you think Spoelstra is also a good coach? Hoiberg would still have the job if Rose was still Rose.
Hasn't happened, yet. Strong rumors that he'll sign there.
Knicks want to meet with KD, too. One can dream, I guess.
Not for long.
So you're saying you agree with the Knicks win now approach with Lebron still in his
prime? You think this is a good idea with these players?
A few weeks ago everyone buried the Cavs when they were down 3-1 and now they can't be beaten. You play to win the game.
In the East. They can't be beaten. Not next year. Not the year after. Unless Lebron gets hurt.
The Knicks/Jackson have no other choice. If things come together maybe a core of Melo-Zinger-Rose-Noah wins them 46-50 games and lands them in the 3-6 seed range for a year or two. Maybe, they finally win a playoff series. Give the MSG crew something to cheer about. I have no problem with what they're doing or trying to do. But with that said, they are nowhere near being serious contenders and 3 of those pieces are on the decline.
Yup, I do. They can elevate themselves to the 2nd best team in the east, add veteran leaders who fill holes around your two stars, and get them relatively cheap. The Raptors with KLow and Demar DeMidGame took the Cavs to six games, a Knicks team that's working can definitely do just as well if things work out.
If not? They still have their 1st rounder in 2017, so you can add pieces that way, and the Rose contract goes away. They also still will have something like 12m in #CAPSPACE to add another good player.
There's other ways to acquire talent than tanking, to quote the great Sam Hinkie:
"We paid a record price to Sam Presti for the 31st pick to draft Carl Landry in 2007. He's the best offensive rebounder and the best rim finisher in the league as a rookie. And then over time, he ends up in a deal for Kevin Martin. And over time, Kevin Martin ends up in a deal for James Harden. You start with a set of chips, given to you by the league. How do you make it bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, such that you can win?"
You always have a choice. Their choice was to trade away a bunch of #1 picks for crappy veterans. And now instead of continuing to trade #1 picks just sign old men to 18M a year deals instead. Haven't learned clearly. And before you ask me how to fix it I'd start with trading Melo for youth and picks. Getting really bad for a couple years. Drafting high. Put some actual building blocks around Zinger that he can grow with down the line. When Lebron James is ready to sail away. This won't work. And yes, you always have a choice. They should've traded Melo yesterday. It's no coincidence the only player they have for their future is the guy they just drafted near the type of the lottery. I'm sure they'll add a great part next year drafting 17th after they lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.
Saying to go ahead and just trade Melo isn't as easy as that. He has a no trade clause and really hadn't indicated wanting to move. You know, the wife is wearing the pants in that relationship. On top of that Jackson has no interest in pulling a Hinkie special. Wo way too big for that. Overall, I agree with you, tho. Just don't think the Knicks/Jackson head down that road.
Because it sucked. That first round pick you're so giggly over will be a nothingburger pick between 16-20. Rose is finished as an elite player. You'll find that out first hand and then be wondering how you can move on from Noah's 100M contract.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Some fan bases actually demand their teams try and win. You seem to forget the Sixers tanked two years in a row and got two nothing burgers within the top 3 of the draft.
Stop it. The Knicks would do f'n cartwheels to have Okafor, Saric and Embiid on their roster this year. Not to mention having multiple #1 picks next year that will be in the range of actually drafting good players.
The Bulls literally gave away a guy with just one year left on his deal for a backup guard and a mediocre big man with a terrible contract. That's how highly they thought of what Rose has left in the tank.
There is a chance the Sixers don't play many games with any of the 3 guys you mentioned.
1. The length of the contract isn't out yet, it would have to be 6+ years to get to 100m, so let's start with that. A 4-5 year deal seems more reasonable, but again we'll see when all is said and done. So there, you're just making stuff up.
2. Rose doesn't have to be elite - he's got one year to be an average point guard, distributing to 2 elite scorers. That's all, and he's got 1 year left on the deal so its no risk, just clearing other contracts.
3. If Rose is finished, and Jo sucks, how is that pick going to be 16-20? That implies the Knicks made the playoffs, something basically every Knicks fan would kill for right now.
4. In conclusion, my response didn't suck. Listen to Hinkie, try to acquire talent in other ways besides tanking.
