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Penn Relays

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sebastianc

Diaper Dandy
Apr 11, 2010
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Penn Relays are next weekend. Both the men and the women have realistic chances at DMR, 4x1500/mile and 4x800. I believe performances last weekend and this weekend will go a long way in deciding the makeup of these relay squads.

The results posted at the VU website about Larry Ellis Invitational do not let you know that the VU runners were competing against "professionals." So their performances should be seen in that light. It appears that Margey might be rounding into shape. Schappert has gone past Piccirillo at this point. Is it that Schappert has gotten so much better (good) or that Piccirillo has regressed (not so good) or some combination thereof. Will be interesting. My concern, is as always, the 400 legs for both the men and women in the DMR.

Ellison is team's best 400 man, but if he runs 400, who runs 800?

Fitzsimons DNF, last week. Where is Malone? It almost seems he peaked as a junior indoors.

Based on results, last night, at Larry Ellis Invitational, Solis is for real. That was TFE's contention during indoor season. Lampron was sub-1:50 indoors and ran well, last night. Are they seriously thinking of Tiernan on 4xmile?

BTW, I believe Arkansas women are coming - not men.

This should be in the Recruits thread, but wonder if Siofra C-B is visiting during Penn Relays week or weekend? Penn Relays is where track gets a chance to shine. Forget this "Track City USA" nonsense. That is what Nike would have you believe. give them enough time - and $ - and they will try and the NIke Relays at Eugene. Unfortunately, for them, small town romanticism only goes so far. My rant for the day.

My partners and I will get there Friday morning and stay until the Championship 4x400 Saturday around 6 pm. And the weather looks. Maybe VU has some successes. Would be nice.
 
sebastianic,

Thanks for inforrmation; I will be coming down
on Thursday afternoon. It is about a five hour drive
one. We leave before the 4 by 400 on Saturday, and
strange since when I was in school that was the biggie.
Jumbo always said we the wolves running anchor. Our
biggest opposition for a few years was Morgan State with
Josh Culbreath from Norristown High running anchor.
 
Whitecat, you have traveled all the way from upstate NY and now you are going to leave a few minutes early - probably an hour or more because of the crush - and miss the Men's 4 x 400 ...? No, it is too good. In many ways, it is better than the USA v World sequence of relays. Just wish VU was a viable competitor at 4x400. Now that would be cool - very cool.
 
Originally posted by sebastianc:
Penn Relays are next weekend. Both the men and the women have realistic chances at DMR, 4x1500/mile and 4x800. I believe performances last weekend and this weekend will go a long way in deciding the makeup of these relay squads.

The results posted at the VU website about Larry Ellis Invitational do not let you know that the VU runners were competing against "professionals." So their performances should be seen in that light. It appears that Margey might be rounding into shape. Schappert has gone past Piccirillo at this point. Is it that Schappert has gotten so much better (good) or that Piccirillo has regressed (not so good) or some combination thereof. Will be interesting. My concern, is as always, the 400 legs for both the men and women in the DMR.

Ellison is team's best 400 man, but if he runs 400, who runs 800?

Fitzsimons DNF, last week. Where is Malone? It almost seems he peaked as a junior indoors.

Based on results, last night, at Larry Ellis Invitational, Solis is for real. That was TFE's contention during indoor season. Lampron was sub-1:50 indoors and ran well, last night. Are they seriously thinking of Tiernan on 4xmile?

BTW, I believe Arkansas women are coming - not men.

This should be in the Recruits thread, but wonder if Siofra C-B is visiting during Penn Relays week or weekend? Penn Relays is where track gets a chance to shine. Forget this "Track City USA" nonsense. That is what Nike would have you believe. give them enough time - and $ - and they will try and the NIke Relays at Eugene. Unfortunately, for them, small town romanticism only goes so far. My rant for the day.

My partners and I will get there Friday morning and stay until the Championship 4x400 Saturday around 6 pm. And the weather looks. Maybe VU has some successes. Would be nice.
Click to expand...
1. Agreed.

2.
I think Stephanie Schappert has made a big leap forward. Worth noting that Piccirillo just set a personal best at 1500 two weeks ago at Princeton, and I can't really fault anybody for losing to Emily Lipari by a second and a half (worth noting that no non-Villanova girls beat her) at any distance right now. She is in the best shape a VIllanova woman has been in since Sheila Reid in 2011. The 400 legs should be fine, Wilkins did okay last year, and that is only one-tenth of the race distance. Given the strength of the other three legs, especially the women's anchor, I think they'll be okay.
3. If Oregon is in the DMR and Mike Berry is running, I think you need Ellison in the 400 leg, because he's the only guy Villanova has who can come within a second of Berry. If he runs Dusty Solis can dig down deep in relays, he's shown that multiple times before.

4. Malone ran unattached today at Widener. No idea why he was unattached. 3:54 in the 1500.

5. I think it's very likely that you will see Tiernan in the 4xMile.
I'd be willing to bet that he runs the first leg, since he seems to be
very comfortable as a frontrunner. The good thing about having a team
with four runners capable of ~4:00 or less is that you can drop the
hammer at any leg.
6.
No idea when she's visiting, but I did see that John Coghlan will be running on the Irish DMR for Penn, and is now affiliated with NYAC like his dad. Would be cool if he runs well in the years to come. Don't even get me started about Oregon. Did you see that they're trying to bid to get the World Championships for 2019? World Juniors totally makes sense, but Hayward Field hosting an International championship... god.
Go 'Cats.
 
For me the USA vs. the World stuff is one of my least favorite parts of the Penn Relays. I understand why they do it. Get some big names, sell some more tix, and get nat'l TV coverage on saturday by having those guys.

But when I think of Penn Relays it is about that HS or college runner getting the experience of his/her life by running in front of 20-40K people. That kid will never forget that. Most int'l superstars will forget their race at Penn Relays the next day as they train for worlds/olys.

But if you want the true Penn Relays experience go late morning or early afternoon on Thurs or Friday and watch 2-3 hours of high school 4x400s or 4x100s. The excitement in those kids' eyes of getting to run at Franklin Field is worth the price of admission. Even better watch the Champ of America DMR's for the men and women.
 
I do not mind the USA v World stuff. On some level, it is interesting and adds something to the Relays and one does get to see some of the top runners. But agree that watching the high schools and colleges are the best part - especially the many Boys 4x400s on Saturday morning. Here one "discovers" the "new" running sensation. For me, it might have been Obea Moore (Muir HS, Pasadena, CA). And it is great to see a U.S. high school beat the Jamaicans. Best moment though was last year, in the Women's 4 x 800, and Lipari catching Roesler (Oregon) at the finish. All the Villanova girls were outstanding, but Lipari ... Now that was a fine moment.
 
There is very little heart left in the world; Emily has it all.
 
men finish 2nd in DMR to Oregon. Oregon was loaded, won it easily. Nice 1600 leg by Williamsz 3:57 and change.
 
I just arrived home from Penn. It won't strike
you as profound, but it was an easier trip tp Penn
from our family home in Havertown then it is on a drive
from central NY. That ended in 1999 when we sold our
family in the burbs. My wfe told me to stay over around
Scranton. but I pushed on to have a few drinks at home.
I am pouring down some now.

I was a basketball coach and college scout, but i need
some reruiting news about next year's recuits in T & F.
College hoops' coaches won't to pl ay in the Palestra;
bring your thin clads to
 
Great weekend for the Cats, especially the Women. The men got a big win on Saturday, to add to the 3 Championship of America wins by the Women. When was the last time we won or more 4 C of A's? Seems like it's been a while.
 
Outstanding Penn Relays.

I do not know what more we can say about Lipari. She is fantastic. Did not see DMR, Thursday, but Friday, she just sat on Cuffie until the stretch and blew by her. That was even more satisfying because Cuffie chose Stanford over VU. If she had come to VU, she would have at least one gold. And if Stanford gets gold, next year, it may be in the 4x800. That is not Cuffie.

In the 4x800, Roesler was coming. And Lipari let her come. Roesler had a lot of ground to make up. Takes energy. Coming off the final turn, Lipari blew her away. Smart running on Lipari's part.

Not so smart running in Men's 4xmile. Even though McEntee handed off the stick in first, he ran an awful race and effectively lost the race on the first leg. First leg was Oregon's weakest. On paper, McEntee is about 7 - 8 sec faster than Prakel. They essentially ran the same 4:11 - thus totally negating VU's supposed advantage.

Supposedly Tiernan split 4 flat. That was totally unexpected. Denault did not look good. Had the lead but at least four guys went by him. Unimpressed. Concede one was Cheserek, but the others ...

Did not see any high schoolers that impressed other than Olivia Baker- Fastest 800 split in Penn history (2:02.55). She was way back when she got the stick. Fantastic. Unfortunately she is off to Stanford.

Boys? Jamaican "kids" are outstanding, but they are grown men. Was really rooting for Chaminade in Boy's 4x800. Look at a picture. Chaminade guy is a kid; Jamaican guy had definition and was a man. Marcus rarely recruits in Jamaica. Can sort of understand.

Men will never be successful in DMR until they find a real 400 man. And the women ere fortunate that they had Lipari. They will not be so fortunate, next year. Wilkins is not the answer at 400.
 
Both the men's and women's DMRs showed how relatively insignificant the 400 leg is and how important the other three legs are. Villanova conceded more 1.3 seconds to Stanford on the 400m leg, which is more than ten meters in distance and they still beat them by almost a second on the strength of an extremely strong anchor leg. Like the 4xMile, Villanova lost the DMR on the opening leg, which is understandable, because Mac Fleet is the defending NCAA 1500m champ. Not many other schools have the luxury of that kind of lineup. Also, I'm convinced that if he needed to, Cheserek could have run a 3:50 split on the DMR anchor. He just burned away a 25 second final 200m off of an already brisk pace.
 
Supposedly the girl we have recruited from Tappan Zee
ran a leg in one of the early relays on Thursday, but that was before
I got to Penn. Does anyone know how she and if she ran.

Does anyone know anything about the girl who won the girls'
mile in 4:45? I wasn't hoping that Kennedy W. from Elk Lake Catholic
fell and broke her leg, but I wasn't rooting for her.
 
Jaskot ran pretty well in the 4x4, the Penn Relays official site had her at a 58.91, which is pretty damn good for a high school girl.
 
This shibboleth that the 400 leg of the DMR is unimportant is not borne out by any facts. One can buy into such thinking if the other three legs are so dominant, but that would be true of any relay. In the women's DMR, Villanova and Standford had somewhat similar times on the 1st and 3rd legs, but on the 2nd or 400 leg, Villanova spotted Stanford 2 sec. Villanova only won by .3 sec. Do the math.

The men are a bit more complicated. I have never understood why O'Sullivan runs McEntee on the 1200 leg. McEntee and Williamsz are somewhat similar milers, but Williamsz is a superior 800 man. Ergo he is probably better at the 1200. But the real issue is that Villanova has no serious 400 man. Ellison is an 800 man, who also happens to be the team's best 400 man. But he is not in the league with the other 400 men. So you are left with Solis at 800 - and he is just not ready for that role. Like him a lot, but he was over matched here. Now try a serious 400 man that would allow Ellison to run his best event - 800. Would they beat Oregon? Who knows, but they would have been a lot more competitive.

Next year, there will be no Lipari and no Ellison and no improvement at 400 for either squad. Does not bode well.

Not getting serious 400 people is myopic. But one can offset that weakness with overwhelming superior people on the other legs. And that is not the case.
 
What we just saw with Oregon might be the greatest college distance medley team in over 30 years, and possibly ever. If either Fleet or Cheserek had been pushed in their leg, the pace could have a lot faster. Remember the old Villanova teams that had the luxury of guys like Don Paige running the first leg? McEntee didn't have his best meet, and ultimately, Villanova lost because he was more than two seconds behind Fleet at the exchange to the 400m leg, because the leg was allowed to be somewhat tactical, and there is no doubt that Fleet is a faster closer than him. It's moot though, because nobody in that race was beating Cheserek.

As for the women, 54 seconds is more than fast enough. A few years ago when Georgetown ran 10:51 in the women's DMR, their 400 leg ran slower than Wilkins, but they won because they had the fastest first leg and the fastest anchor. The DMR is won on those two legs. As long as you have a 400 and an 800 runner who can give your anchor the baton in a distance that they can close from, you're good. Lipari was never going to lose to Cuffe, she just didn't want to waste her energy by forcing the pace. You saw the same thing in the 4x800 when she allowed Roesler to blow her away. I kind of wish that Ellison had conserved a bit of energy at the end of the men's 4x8, because he looked spent at the end of the race, enough that I hope it doesn't have a negative impact on the rest of his season.

This post was edited on 5/2 12:36 PM by TheFoyeEffect
 
I think you are being a little pessimistic for the women's DMR hopes next year.....Schappert, Margey, Wilkens and Piccirillo will have a great chance again next year....just saying.
 
D'Nova

The ones you listed are solid,
but as of now there isn't a closer
there.
 
Folks, let's get real here.

TFE would have you believe that the 400 leg of the DMR doesn't really matter and that a first leg or a third leg or an anchor is more important. Why? Obviously a strong anchor is always important, but it is a relay and all legs count. If you are fortunate enough to have three dominant legs or say two world-class runners on a couple of the legs, then you are way ahead. But it is not the length of the leg per se, but the time differential that counts. The longer the leg, the greater chance that one can achieve a larger time differential. If all legs are competitive - i.e., no one leg sees a dominant performer - then every leg counts. In VU's case, their 400 runners just are not that good. The women were fortunate that they only lost 2 sec. That has to be made up somewhere. Fortunately, they had Lipari and Stanford did not have its best miler available.

I am in the stands and rooting hard for VU, however I strongly question whether they can win DMR next year. Not being a pessimist - just dealing with realities. Wilkins is only a soph (maybe she gets better) and there is some real speed coming in Melissa June and maybe Siofra C-B will be outstanding, but Stanford will be loaded. Everyone from their DMR returns; only one leg is lost on 4x1500; they may have the ingredients for a competitive 4x800. Check-out their incoming class. I think VU's best chances will be 4x1500 and 4x800 - if Siofra C-B comes.

Still VU had this year. And that was great. Maybe it inspires some scholar-athletes to come. Think Brianna Schwartz (PA) in 2015. Jordan Williamsz was outstanding.
 
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