Would Villanova ever consider the Patriot League?

[Gangtackle11]

I saw some scuttlebutt about the CAA on another site & a fan posted that Nova would be a Patriot League team if and when Coach Talley retired. Rationale was closer regional play & academics align with Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, & HC

Do you ever think that is a possibility?

 

[Eillor]

Patriot league is the equivalent of the big east.

A WASTE OF TIME

 

[Gangtackle11]

Sorry Uncle Ed. Wasn't saying they should go there. I was hoping to get perspective from guys like you.

Never was intimating football was going away, but wanted to know if schools in the Patriot didn't make sense for football.

I'm in my 50s and as a boy I watched Mike Siani torch my HS on Thanksgiving Day for 3 years. I learned about Villanova back then and have followed the program from afar on and off for a long time. I know a few of the kids there now and coming in.

I wish nothing, but the best for Villanova football.

 

[UncleEd]

Gang - I realize you are a great Villanova football supporter I am more in incensed by VU alumni that refuse to realize how good an academic institution she is. We must stop genuflecting before schools that puff out their academic chests.
I might suggest that VU Catholic alumns go back 30 years and find out what went on when VU was bringing back football and looked at Pat League
DC - I am sure you make some salient points. However, I find your posts so complicated and wordy that I can not make sense out of them. Then again I am a Villanova grad, so that must explain my lack of understanding.

 

[Mainliner II]

Seriously......would moving to the Patriot league be considered a step up, down, or a lateral move?? As a follow up, would such a move increase or decrease interest in football, and how would it affect attendance ? And is it possible to determine if the school would have a greater saving in expenses?

 

[NovaUSMC01]

Ed-

I support football. I have been a season ticket holder for nearly ten years and would continue to be one if we moved to the Patriot. Same for the football club, been a member for a number of years. Not genuflecting to any school in the Patriot League either. I really was just wondering why would not even consider such a move. I think Villanova fits in nicely in that conference for football. The CAA is facing potential defections in the coming years. Villanova will come to a decision point eventually.

 

[LetsGoNova]

Moving to the Patriot league would not affect expenses much at all, as the top schools are all at or approaching max schollies or equivalencies. It might be slightly positive for attendance, as lehigh and Lafayette would be nice local rivalries. Competitive level would be down significantly from the CAA. It would probably hurt recruiting due to the Academic Index the PL schools adhere to (it's something like recruits can't be more than 2 standard deviations from the average student's qualifications). I think it ultimately wouldn't matter at all - the same fans would attend either way for the most part. I do think we have more in common with most PL schools than a JMU or even a UNH, but not sure how much that matters. The CAA is certainly a better football league, that should be the overriding factor. We aren't moving all sports to either of those leagues, ever.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Gangtackle11]

Patriot League 2020

North:
Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Lafayette
Holy Cross


South:
Villanova
Bucknell
Richmond
W&M
Georgetown ?

 

[UncleEd]

Gang very interesting. At this time our program is better than any one listed.
USMC I know you are a great supporter of Villanova football. I guess I am just tired of Villanovans who don't realize how great the school is academically and athletically. Always with a negative remark. Other schools always do things better. I sometimes think that by being negative they justify their lack of financiall support.
Hoops currently 6th in the country at 12-0. Football always a top 10 program. OK football is not at the highest level(again giving alumni a reason to withhold dollars) Yet VU has two programs with great success. Programs built the right way. Academic rep that is soaring. What is not to be proud of? Send a donation today and get a tax write off. (I could not resist this plug)

 

[NovaUSMC01]

Trust me Ed, I know I have become insufferable around these parts lately. Part of the reason is what you allude to in your post. Villanova is at a crossroads right now. This is a period that will have ramifications for our school for years to come. We got very lucky (so far) with the way the Big East has broken. I am thrilled about what only the second year has brought for our nascent league. Still, there is much work left to be done. Like you, I get frustrated when the thought process is "the school needs to fix this, do that, allocate here, spend there". Yet, many of the people who make such remarks don't give a dime back to the school to help make this happen (this is not directed at you in the least ball, I know you are good to the school). Well, here we are, at a point that requires our alums to do some very heavy lifting. It requires every Villanovan to participate to the best of their ability. It is also going to require a sense of urgency.

Back to the original post, I would actually enjoy playing Patriot League teams more than the teams we play now. Do not mean to denigrate those schools in the least. I just would prefer seeing us play similar schools. Keep W&M/Richmond for out of conference.

 

[Sader87]

Full disclosure, I've brought this up at AGS a few times. I'm not looking to pluck Nova from the CAA....if you guys come, great. If you don't...fine, good luck to ya'.

It just seems like the PL is ultimately a bettah fit for Villanova football in the long run.

 

[centraljerseycat]

There is no need for two divisions since there are no conference championship games in FCS so you don't need more than 9 or 10 teams at most. I would think there would have to be some relaxing of the Academic Index also to get Nova, Richmond, UD or William & Mary interested.

 

[SU68]

I don't presume to know what is right for Villanova, but you should consider this: most conferences require member schools to have their teams in any sport the conference sponsors, i.e., you can't have your football team in one conference and your basketball team in another conference if your "parent" conference plays at the same classification you do.

For example, the oBE would not allow Villanova football to join another BCS conference and have basketball and the non-revenue sports to remain in the oBE.

The Patriot League's bylaws read:


3. Participation in Other Athletic Leagues

Members of the League shall resign from other athletic leagues governing competition in

the sports, which they shall play in the League. This requirement applies to those

affiliations, which would conflict with League competition and would not include

organizations such as those affiliated with the Eastern College Athletic Conference.
Would you guys really want to have Villanova basketball forced to play in the Patriot League?

 

[UncleEd]

SU 68 - Nova is a BE basketball power and will remain so. Hoops is our flagship sport and will remain so.
But who knows what will happen next re NCAA conferences.
In the mean time I am happy playing football in the CAA, a super football conference.
Happy New Year

 

[DrunkJakeRoberts]

Originally posted by Gangtackle11:

I saw some scuttlebutt about the CAA on another site & a fan posted that Nova would be a Patriot League team if and when Coach Talley retired. Rationale was closer regional play & academics align with Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, & HC

Do you ever think that is a possibility?

I still think they'll pull out of the CAA after Talley retires. I'm not happy about that possibility...one step closer to the grave, imo, but there are possible logical benefits doing so. They can keep Penn and Delaware on the schedule, as well as get their FBS games if/when wanted. They get the Ivy-lite rub, games with Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell where people might actually travel to see. They can potentially scale down scholarship offerings, cutting some costs. Travel potentially gets easier and cheaper.

I think CAA's still in a rough place. Schools without football stiff-arming ones with the sport, public vs. private, appeasing travel needs, leaving the conference for better prospects, etc....sound familiar? JMU may be keeping CAAF together. Lose them, and I don't know if Richmond and W&M sticks with the group, which might cause VU to proactively address the issue. Now, you have the Patriot with potentially Richmond and William & Mary in it...is it all that bad for Villanova?

Part of me thinks the school weasels out on football investment claiming lightning won't strike twice for their hopes of finding and retaining a guy like Talley. That running football in a place like Patriot helps to recruit the caliber student athletes VU deserves, blah, blah, blah...as if games with Georgetown is really a step up.

Oh well. Time will tell. Enjoy the ride for now, though.

 

[paschall]

Gangtackle11: Answer to your question is, yes. If the CAA changes in ways Villanova would not see as positive, the Patriot League would probably be our most viable option. Who knows what will happen to the CAA over the next 5-10 years? Currently, the CAA is a fine league for us.The Patriot could be a fine place to land, if necessary. If a Richmond or a W&M, or possible some others also joined it could be an excellent league.

 

[UncleBill57]

First of all Villanova's football players are consistently very good students. Next, the Patriot league teams have already gone to scholarships for basketball and are in the process of doing so for football. I see us staying in the CAA at least temporarily yet envision the possibility of joining the Patriot
League for football at some point down the road. Never for Gwuennies repetitive rationale that only sickens for his wining.

 

[Tribe52]

I can't understand why people continue to bounce W&M around as a possible Patriot candidate. The school has addressed this directly, there is no interest for a variety of reasons.

W&M has invested itself in the CAA, both for football and as a viable all sports conference. Much of this started as W&M and UD both had clear missions to be part of a regional all sports conference. The CAA has given W&M a great home for all it's sports. It's not going away.

Villanova is obviously in a different position. Basketball is your lead sport (for W&M, it's football). You have parked your teams in a basketball league. I can see where football is the outlier.

I like both leagues as a fan of FCS, CAA and Patriot. One potential difference I can see is the aftermath of another NCAA restructuring with football. It seems inevitable and when it happens, one possible option is a three tier set-up in D1. I could see the lower end of FBS combined with the MV, CAA and Big Sky as the mid level. The schools are very much alike. The balance of FCS could be a Tier 3.

In that case, I would want W&M in the mid tier and I think the school leadership would want same.

This post was edited on 1/11 2:20 PM by Tribe52

This post was edited on 1/11 2:20 PM by Tribe52

 

[DrunkJakeRoberts]

Originally posted by Tribe52:
I can't understand why people continue to bounce W&M around as a possible Patriot candidate. The school has addressed this directly, there is no interest for a variety of reasons.

W&M has invested itself in the CAA, both for football and as a viable all sports conference. Much of this started as W&M and UD both had clear missions to be part of a regional all sports conference. The CAA has given W&M a great home for all it's sports. It's not going away.

Villanova is obviously in a different position. Basketball is your lead sport (for W&M, it's football). You have parked your teams in a basketball league. I can see where football is the outlier.

I like both leagues as a fan of FCS, CAA and Patriot. One potential difference I can see is the aftermath of another NCAA restructuring with football. It seems inevitable and when it happens, one possible option is a three tier set-up in D1. I could see the lower end of FBS combined with the MV, CAA and Big Sky as the mid level. The schools are very much alike. The balance of FCS could be a Tier 3.

In that case, I would want W&M in the mid tier and I think the school leadership would want same.

This post was edited on 1/11 2:20 PM by Tribe52

This post was edited on 1/11 2:20 PM by Tribe52

Do you think W&M and Delaware really wanted Elon? I've heard the "bridge" thing for UNCW, the "southern arm" thing for the likes of UNCW and CoC, and the chess match to extract Davidson and Furman from SoCon (so much for Davidson, I suppose), but put Elon against CoC, Davidson, Furman, and the northern schools that were desired for full membership (Albany and Stony Brook), and Elon looks like someone got stuck with the old maid.

I have nothing against Elon as a school. I know they're a good one. I just don't get how the commitment talk stays so firm when a group of schools were desired, but the end product was so compromised more so because of internal issues and conference leadership than it was actual need. I'm curious if the likes of Delaware and William and Mary are that unified with the likes of Hofstra. They seem worlds apart.

 

[beehive]

I used to sneak in the games before the ticket folks arrived, great memories

 

[UncleEd]

The Pat League can't hold Villanova's jock in football or basketball.

 

[Eillor]

The patriot league is equivalent to the new big east -- a waste of time.
Whoever thought spending $ 90,000,000 for big east or whatever the exact # was,
Certainly was a case of money not well spent.