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Harvey vs Hamels Friday night

wcburrs87 said:
The Royals acumen. Phew. Yea, I get it there time has finally come. But one playoff appearance in 25 years and 19 losing seasons. Yep, that's some acumen.

Could someone define for me what major haul means?
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You are aware that Dayton Moore who run the Royals now, was long time scout for the Braves - and you know, they won a little bit. With the budget of legit small market team - I think it's safe to say he and Raj are not in the same league. You're a fran dunphey guy - Moore's doing a lot more with a lot less. Thought you would appreciate that.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
You are aware that Dayton Moore who run the Royals now, was long time scout for the Braves - and you know, they won a little bit. With the budget of legit small market team - I think it's safe to say he and Raj are not in the same league. You're a fran dunphey guy - Moore's doing a lot more with a lot less. Thought you would appreciate that.
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Cap tip to Mr. Moore. Decades of sucking and picking in the top 5 in the draft every year is finally paying off for this franchise. Yep, bound to happen eventually. Everyone takes a turn at some point. And very few maintain excellence over an extended period of time. I get it that the guys running the teams on top of divisions today are geniuses. The last place teams are run by boobs. I get it. Until another 5-6 years pass and the division leaders change.
 
adp98 said:
He's no Mike Rizzo. BTW, Harper
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You're damn right he's no Rizzo. His team actually won a playoff series.

Harper's off the charts right now. Reminds me of Ryan Howard in the glory years.
 
wcburrs87 said:
Cap tip to Mr. Moore. Decades of sucking and picking in the top 5 in the draft every year is finally paying off for this franchise. Yep, bound to happen eventually. Everyone takes a turn at some point. And very few maintain excellence over an extended period of time. I get it that the guys running the teams on top of divisions today are geniuses. The last place teams are run by boobs. I get it. Until another 5-6 years pass and the division leaders change.
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Hey, not everyone can take a 104M, 92 win and WS winning team and turn it into a 180M, 73 win disaster - I get that. But given his budget, and what he inherited, the next GM of the CoP would be apologized for for decades if he's fortunate enough to accomplish the same thing. FACT!
 
I don't blame RAJ for the players underachieving in '10 and '11. He equipped them with plenty to win and they come up small. It happens.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
And right on cue, an apology.
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Actually it's a fact.

I don't give two craps about RAJ. But make no mistake those teams were good enough to win, but they didn't get it done on the field. Furthermore, IMO RAJ gets all the blame when I have little doubt a lot of these contracts came from Montgomery and some other guys further up the food chain.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
If they were 'good enough to win' they would have won.
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Granted. But the point is that it wasn't the GM's fault. Like I have said many times. The players failed in those years. You'll just argue to argue anymore.
 
right. Only the 1 team that actually wins a championship is ever "good enough" to win.

So by this logic, Villanova with 30 wins was not "good enough" to win this year.

You're a decent poster most of the time but when you imitate ball with stupid troll tactics like this, you lose all credibility. Hope that helps you, sport. I'm here to help.
 
MakingLove2BeckyLobo said:
right. Only the 1 team that actually wins a championship is ever "good enough" to win.

So by this logic, Villanova with 30 wins was not "good enough" to win this year.

You're a decent poster most of the time but when you imitate ball with stupid troll tactics like this, you lose all credibility. Hope that helps you, sport. I'm here to help.
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Don't confuse Ball-like troll tactics with CoDB D-headedness tactics.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
Villanova was not good enough to win this year. Fact.
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No need to be douchey with everything. Everyone understands only one team wins in the end. However, in every sport, you'll often hear/read about multiple teams being good enough to win before the season or playoffs even begin. That's what we're talking about here.
 
wcburrs87 said:
Granted. But the point is that it wasn't the GM's fault. Like I have said many times. The players failed in those years. You'll just argue to argue anymore.
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Wait, so does this apply to Rizzo or just RAJ? Way to be consistent when discussing baseball GM's.
 
BTW - for all intents RAJ inherited that team - it's the aftermath and subsequent demise that's his record. Inherited good, and currently presiding over very very poor, with no help in sight. And in that time his payroll has gone up exponentially. So taking shots at the guy who turned around the small market impossible while apologizing for RAJ just drips with 4 for 4 irony .
 
Was Kentucky "not good enough" to win this year? When phils won 101 regular season games, they were "good enough" to win.
 
adp98 said:
Wait, so does this apply to Rizzo or just RAJ? Way to be consistent when discussing baseball GM's.
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Yes. I blame Nats' players over the GM for playoff disappointments. However, I never considered RAJ or any other GM as God like you do with Rizzo. There's the difference. Dare I say? Pay attention better.....
 
Who took shots at KC's GM? All I said was that they have one playoff appearance and 19 losing seasons on the last quarter of a century. Fact! I believe I gave this guy a cap tip, too.
 
Dmil, you're not listening. I'm
Not apologizing for anyone. I think the players came up short in 10/11. See, I'm placing blame on them for that. Secondly, I don't believe RAJ made all the bad decisions by himself. I get that he's the easy target, but I choose to blame all the higher-ups in the organization. But that's just me.
 
Burrs, I just enjoy seeing you twist yourself into a pretzel. For some reason you and Lowry have an absolute hard on for Rizzo. I'm simply playing into that emotion. Rizzo is very good at building a team. The knock on him is that he doesn't do enough mid-season to improve the team. Last year the Cabrera move was a good one. I wouldn't crown him anything until we see how the next year or two plays out. Lots of tough decisions that will cement his legacy in DC coming. RAJ is awful at his job. Why anyone would attempt to defend him is beyond me. That just makes you blinded homer.
 
How can I be a homer when I have acknowledged that they suck right now? How can I be a homer when I say in 10-11 the players came up small? It makes no sense....

You worship Rizzo. Maybe, you fail to see the tone when you speak of him. So, we bust your stones about it. Just roll with the punches with that.

RAJ is definitely part of the problem, but I don't think he was making a lot of those decisions solo. If you're around these parts it's really not hard to see. Montgomery is an admitted loyalist, who is full of the nostalgia. They arguably had the most success of any Phillies' era, so they stuck with it a year or two too long. I believe Mongomery and ownership was spearheading much of this. They enjoyed the sellouts and kept saying let's give it one more try. Again, not hard to understand. If this was all RAJ doing then he would have been canned by now. They feel sorry for him because they supported and I believe in some cases requested some of these moves. So, this is why I don't put all of what we see today on RAJ plate.
 
wcburrs87 said:
How can I be a homer when I have acknowledged that they suck right now? How can I be a homer when I say in 10-11 the players came up small? It makes no sense....

You worship Rizzo. Maybe, you fail to see the tone when you speak of him. So, we bust your stones about it. Just roll with the punches with that.

RAJ is definitely part of the problem, but I don't think he was making a lot of those decisions solo. If you're around these parts it's really not hard to see. Montgomery is an admitted loyalist, who is full of the nostalgia. They arguably had the most success of any Phillies' era, so they stuck with it a year or two too long. I believe Mongomery and ownership was spearheading much of this. They enjoyed the sellouts and kept saying let's give it one more try. Again, not hard to understand. If this was all RAJ doing then he would have been canned by now. They feel sorry for him because they supported and I believe in some cases requested some of these moves. So, this is why I don't put all of what we see today on RAJ plate.
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You don't need to put it all on RAJ's plate to see he sucks at his job. Let's put 25%. Guy is an absolute failure. Rizzo, now Rizzo is god.
 
Serious question...was RAJ a clueless boob in 2009-2011 when he was putting together 100 win teams? I'm not really a fan so I'm curious if he was as hated during those years.

Is it a matter of he's better at maintaining a winner built to win now as opposed to having to do an entire rebuild?
 
No, he wasn't hated during those years. He's become the whipping boy from a clueless fan base who believe he made every single decision because he holds the title of GM. They won a WS in '08. They tried to piggyback on that in the years that followed. Made some trades in the hopes to get better. They really didn't have high draft picks in those years so the farm system suffered. They were a top team in baseball for three years after the '08 title, but fell short on that second championship. It happens. He took some risks. They held onto guys too long. Anyone who believes this is all his doing is a dope. Upper management was directly involved here.

Is he a good GM? probably not, but a lot of this has to do with luck. Like you really have to be a guru type to draft the likes of Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg at the top of draft after blowing forever.

The Phillies' farm system is starting to show signs of getting better. JP Crawford will be a top 10 prospect in baseball by season's end. Franco and Nola are top 50 prospects. Roman Quinn and Eflin will be top 100 guys by season's end. They are frontrunners to
Land the young Cuban OF come July. They have a high pick this year. They'll probably have a top 5 pick next year and another top 10 pick the year after. Money will be coming off and money isn't ever going to be a problem, so that will open up additional doors. They'll have their turn again. Again, it's cyclical for 80% of baseball.,
 
Kentucky, while obviously talented, lost to the team that lost to the team, so no they were not good enough. In the end, a lot of freshman who could not solve Wisconsin (and probably were lucky to solve ND. Teh might have had enough talent but they were obviously not good enough. That's clear.

But, it's typical CoP - Raj get an apology for turning a 100M World Series champion into a 180M 70 win disaster, while Rizzo get knocked for building a contender, the Mets get knocked for building on a budget, and the Royals get knocked for going to the WS. Only in the CoP folks.

Honestly - call me RAJ actually wins something. I think that's how the saying goes.
 
wcburrs87 said:
No, he wasn't hated during those years. He's become the whipping boy from a clueless fan base who believe he made every single decision because he holds the title of GM. They won a WS in '08. They tried to piggyback on that in the years that followed. Made some trades in the hopes to get better. They really didn't have high draft picks in those years so the farm system suffered. They were a top team in baseball for three years after the '08 title, but fell short on that second championship. It happens. He took some risks. They held onto guys too long. Anyone who believes this is all his doing is a dope. Upper management was directly involved here.

Is he a good GM? probably not, but a lot of this has to do with luck. Like you really have to be a guru type to draft the likes of Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg at the top of draft after blowing forever.

The Phillies' farm system is starting to show signs of getting better. JP Crawford will be a top 10 prospect in baseball by season's end. Franco and Nola are top 50 prospects. Roman Quinn and Eflin will be top 100 guys by season's end. They are frontrunners to
Land the young Cuban OF come July. They have a high pick this year. They'll probably have a top 5 pick next year and another top 10 pick the year after. Money will be coming off and money isn't ever going to be a problem, so that will open up additional doors. They'll have their turn again. Again, it's cyclical for 80% of baseball.,
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21st best farm system in the majors. I guess you know something baseball america doesnt.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
But, it's typical CoP - Raj get an apology for turning a 100M World Series champion into a 180M 70 win disaster, while Rizzo get knocked for building a contender, the Mets get knocked for building on a budget, and the Royals get knocked for going to the WS. Only in the CoP folks.

Honestly - call me RAJ actually wins something. I think that's how the saying goes.
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Payroll currently 147M. Will probably be under 100M by next year.

RAJ won a 2009 pennant....brilliant moves that year too with Pedro signing and Lee trade.

"Pay better attention" I believe is the saying you're looking for here.
 
JoePaturnedABlindEye said:
Payroll currently 147M. Will probably be under 100M by next year.

RAJ won a 2009 pennant....brilliant moves that year too with Pedro signing and Lee trade.

"Pay better attention" I believe is the saying you're looking for here.
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Oh, so after going from 100m and a World Series win when he got the team, he went to 180M and 70 something wins, but now is 'down' to 147M, a terrible team and the 21st best farm system in he majors? You make a really really persuasive argument.
 
Guy fielded competitive teams in 2009-2011. Had they won 1 more during that tenure, he'd be judged differently. they didn't so now he's called awful by the same fans who wanted to S his D after he made all those bonehead trades and contract extensions.
 
JoePaturnedABlindEye said:
Guy fielded competitive teams in 2009-2011. Had they won 1 more during that tenure, he'd be judged differently. they didn't so now he's called awful by the same fans who wanted to S his D after he made all those bonehead trades and contract extensions.
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burrs kills Rizzo for not winning that 'one game'. Anyway - RAJ is here with a bottom of the barrel farm team and a really shitty baseball team that is aging and without any real talent. You're an apologist, like burrs, and that makes me happy. He almost doubled payroll, decreased wins significantly and depleted a farm system. Somehow the Red Sox win a lot, have 3 rings in the last decade and a top rated farm system. But RAJ apologist think he's doing a bang up job. trust me, everyone else in the NL East hopes he keeps his job
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
burrs kills Rizzo for not winning that 'one game'. Anyway - RAJ is here with a bottom of the barrel farm team and a really shitty baseball team that is aging and without any real talent. You're an apologist, like burrs, and that makes me happy. He almost doubled payroll, decreased wins significantly and depleted a farm system. Somehow the Red Sox win a lot, have 3 rings in the last decade and a top rated farm system. But RAJ apologist think he's doing a bang up job. trust me, everyone else in the NL East hopes he keeps his job
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Not an apologist. he went all in to win "now" and crapped out. This is the price to pay for those types of moves. He needs to go. It's long overdue.

And don't get why if I was an apologist that "makes you happy". A random guy on a message board makes you happy? Really? Go smoke more heaters on the porch, whack job.
 
JoePaturnedABlindEye said:
Not an apologist. he went all in to win "now" and crapped out. This is the price to pay for those types of moves. He needs to go. It's long overdue.

And don't get why if I was an apologist that "makes you happy". A random guy on a message board makes you happy? Really? Go smoke more heaters on the porch, whack job.
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Pleased because the more people like burrs and you find excuses for the guy, the longer he stays and make the division that much easier. I love apologist like you and burrs. Maybe not as much as adp, but a lot.
 
The best part of Burrs explanation is that the Phillies didn't have high draft picks during this time. Like the MLB draft is the NBA or something. That's right, the Phillies missed on all 40 rounds of the draft over the past 5 years because they won a few division titles. Burrs, your RAJ apologist tour has no bounds.
 
Burrs breaks ADP's balls because Rizzo hasn't won a playoff series. Furthermore, Burrs doesn't gloat and show weird type of love for the GM. There's the difference. I've never called RAJ good. I just place blame at the feet of many, not just him. What is so hard to understand here? Please, read a little better.

Dmil up at 1:30 AM on a Sunday arguing about CoP. No doubt the scotch was flowing hard yesterday.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
21st best farm system in the majors. I guess you know something baseball america doesnt.
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I believe that number will improve by the end of the season, but the players I mentioned are promising. Rome wasn't built overnight.
 
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