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Atlantic Think Piece Roundup

BigEastBasketball

BigEastBasketball

All VUSports.com Team
Feb 15, 2016
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I am back from my little reduced posting hiatus. Two think pieces for the board to consider.

1. Almost half of middle class Americans would have trouble coming up with $400 in an emergency.

"The secret shame of middle class Americans"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

2. The endless customization options at places like Starbucks feeds into the "special snowflake syndrome" enjoyed by Americans, particularly young Americans, and wouldn't be tolerated in other countries.

"Fancy Starbucks drinks and the special snowflakes who order them"

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/food-customization-america/482073/

Consider the board a better, more highly trafficked place.
 
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My problem with Starbucks is they treat a simple iced coffee as a specialty drink.

If I get a hot coffee, they pour it right away. If I get an iced coffee, I have to wait in line for the fat asses who get mocha frappe chinos with whipped cream and crap. It adds a solid five minutes every time for absolutely no reason.

Thanks for adding to the prosperity of the board. This was a good post.
 
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Lester-Bangs-almost-famous-93452_660_440.jpg
 
Americans are incredibly unsavvy when it comes to money management. It really is something that should be touched on in school, as it will be a net drain on the govt when those who cant fend for themselves come home to roost.

The $400 thing is absurd. No matter your income you should have that. And its a sign of how f-kked we are, collectively.

Read a little "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and turn your pennies into millions!!
 
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NickleDimer said:
The secret shame of the middle class is that they desperately wanted to be upper class. And they failed and are penniless as a result.
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Are you claiming that it is wrong for people to strive for a better lot in life?
Or are you just playing contrarian for the fkk of it?
 
NickleDimer said:
That and a "wishful thinking" plan for a better life. Not having an actual plan and taking action on it. Just hoping that good things will happen to you and painting yourself as the victim when they don't happen.
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Democrats...and blaming everyone else and claiming the system is rigged? Hope and Change. Always knew ND was a GOPer.
 
FWIW, I read that Middle Class Shame piece and thought it was bullshit. You can't come up with $400 until you need to come up with $400. Sell some sperm, donate blood, sell a Dawkins jersey. It was sensational journalism garbage.
 
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I retain no party affiliation.

I think the point was that they don't have the cash flow to come up with a spare $400. They might have to tap into their fat government pensions. The writer of that story was a victim of his own personal choices.

There are certainly a lot of people that don't have any savings or retirement nor cash flow to scrape up much more than 4 hundo. You can drive a few miles in West or North CoP without seeing a 400-aire. I wouldn't consider that middle class though.
 
true middle class people can come up $400. That's the cost of getting your car fixed. That article was utter sensational garbage.It's about prioritizing.
 
Sure, but if you needed it you could find it. Again prioritize. Unless we are saying middle class makes 50K per year...which we all know is not true, unless you live in WV or somewhere cost of living is nothing. Again, the story was BS written to push a "narrative" that suits the author. Middle class in Ner Jersey is 150K+ per year. They can't find $400? Yes they can.
 
Again, that's middle class in New Jersey. That's a school teacher with a pension (and FREE healthcare) and a bar tender with two kids.If it's a good bartending job they make more. That's half a week in cash if need be for the bartender.
 
adp98 said:
Again, that's middle class in New Jersey. That's a school teacher with a pension (and FREE healthcare) and a bar tender with two kids.If it's a good bartending job they make more. That's half a week in cash if need be for the bartender.
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The median teacher's salary in Bergen County is 95k. Entire state is 63k. I bet Chris Christie took away their free healthcare tho.
 
Yep, and her bartender husband pulls down another 75K-100K. She has the pension and benefits, he has the cash. That's close to $2 bills and solid middle class in New Jersey. A teacher and bartender pulling down that cash with pensions and full benefits.The author was a liberal, writer idiot with no real world financial sense.I cry the he couldn't sell his co-op in NYC. Most buildings allow you to rent for two years. Good news his parents were able to send his kid to Stanford.
 
NickleDimer said:
The median teacher's salary in Bergen County is 95k. Entire state is 63k. I bet Chris Christie took away their free healthcare tho.
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Nope, my ex sister in-law is a teacher in NJ. They pay nothing. Their kid was born, not a penny.
 
adp98 said:
Nope, my ex sister in-law is a teacher in NJ. They pay nothing. Their kid was born, not a penny.
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I believe It changes from district to distinct. At least it does in PA. I have acquaintances who are teachers- they paid nothing until Obama's recession hit. Now their burden is much heavier - in line with a generous corporate plan.
 
Focus on the point. This article was garbage designed to push a "narrative". The author is a financial idiot.
 
Yea, lots who live in the Hamptons, has a wife who doesn't work, owns a co-op in Manhattan, is over-educated, never saves and generally goes through life lacking any real world financial decision-making capabilities despite having opportunity. Gee, can I have a writer or a teacher for $1000 Alex? The guy writing the article figured out how to lose money on real estate in Manhattan.
 
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Didn't read the middle class piece did read the Starbucks one while drinking coffee but I love the 250k bartender/teacher couple.

Why are we crying for all those rust belters or miners who lost their jobs? Why don't they just move to NJ and teach and bartend?? Free healthcare too... Which hasn't been the case for 5 years or so but let's roll with it.

The median household income in NJ is like 70k so how are you defining middle class? It's a tricky subject but you have a bartender bringing home 100k? and an average teacher at 150k? The article could certainly be a joke but not sure there are many of these teacher/bartender unicorns roaming around NJ.
 
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Who said we had teachers at 150? Lets keep it honest here. A family of 4 in NJ to be middle class you need to pull in at least 150 and that's still a teacher and a bartender. I used this specific example because I have a guy I worked with in DC who is exactly this guy and he moved up to NJ where his wife got a job and that is his situation. You live on somerset country, central jersey, you aren't making 70k unless you are a kid a few years out of school, retired or poor. You make that kind of money in WV, you are solid middle class. And you can find 400, which was the point refuted in the article.
 
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Misread so 100k then? Plus 100k for tending bar at Gladstone tavern? Or he must be at ninety acres pulling that sort of scratch. I don't think there are many of those gigs but maybe I'm wrong.

Also keep in mind somerset is a top 10 wealthiest county in the country.... So yes median income is going to be much higher in a place like that. Might be highest in all of NJ for that matter, so I agree you would need to be at 150ish to feel middle class there, though according to Pew's numbers I bet that puts you in the top 20% income group even in NJ.
 
150 is a teacher and a nurse, how about we use that example in NJ. Again, that's not a stretch by any means and that's far from rich or upper class anywhere in the amtrak corridor for a family of 4. And you can find 400, back to the point refuted in the article.
 
NickleDimer said:
It is a stretch, pal. 52k is median income in this country.
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No it's accurate. $52K includes fly over country and places like where we grew up. You are a teacher and nurse in a duel income household in NJ that's what you're pulling in. Same if you're a cop and a teacher, a cop and nurse etc....those numbers are accurate and real. You are out of touch if you don't understand that math and how expensive it is to live in parts of this country. Same would apply down here in DC, parts of California, Boston etc...which if those numbers are accurate, and they are, should enable people to come up with $400 in an emergency. The median income number is not an accurate view of anything. First, you need to look at regions, then age and then number of working people within the household. All this stuff is relative and those number paint a much more accurate picture than looking at the whole. If you are retired, obviously your income numbers won't be high and drag the numbers down. If you're 25 and single, same here. Take a family of 4 with the earners falling somewhere between 35-60 and that is going to paint a much more accurate picture of where the middle class is in this country. The author was a guy who never saved a penny, had one household income, lived in a high cost area and made awful financial decisions (and still didn't get much financial aid per the discussion last week, which is interesting).
 
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adp98 said:
No it's accurate. $52K includes fly over country and places like where we grew up. You are a teacher and nurse in a duel income household in NJ that's what you're pulling in. Same if you're a cop and a teacher, a cop and nurse etc....those numbers are accurate and real. You are out of touch if you don't understand that math and how expensive it is to live in parts of this country. Same would apply down here in DC, parts of California, Boston etc...which if those numbers are accurate, and they are, should enable people to come up with $400 in an emergency. The median income number is not an accurate view of anything. First, you need to look at regions, then age and then number of working people within the household. All this stuff is relative and those number paint a much more accurate picture than looking at the whole. If you are retired, obviously your income numbers won't be high and drag the numbers down. If you're 25 and single, same here. Take a family of 4 with the earners falling somewhere between 35-60 and that is going to paint a much more accurate picture of where the middle class is in this country. The author was a guy who never saved a penny, had one household income, lived in a high cost area and made awful financial decisions (and still didn't get much financial aid per the discussion last week, which is interesting).
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Are you trying to focus this discussion to a particular area? Or just shifting the goalposts to suit your argument? Decide and then we can continue the discussion.

Median bartender income: 19k
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353011.htm

Teacher and a nurse: generally require a bachelors degree, 52% of public school teachers have masters. 33% of working age americans have a bachelors or higher. But somehow BOTH spouses having a degree AND a job is middle class.
 
I drink coffee black because I want to enjoy the benefits of coffee without the artificial enhancers.

I would imagine most middle class people undervalue the power of having savings and overvalue things that you have to borrow to pay for. It is not sexy to have six months of earnings in savings because its just a number on a piece of paper or a screen. A big SUV? Well, you drive that to the soccer game.
 
I think that adp is making the author's point for him. We all look at people in certain jobs, including jobs that require a bachelors degree or higher, and assume they are probably pulling six figures and doing ok. Bartender and a teacher? Plumber and a nurse? Seems like those kinds of couples should be pulling $200k with nice bennies.

The point is that, while everyone thinks those people are fine, the majority of them are not. Lots of people who own their own small businesses are basically floating themselves on credit. A 100k bartender is more of an aberration than the norm. A majority of households are pulling in less than six figures annually.

For every $200k/year cop or firefighter there are 20 rent a cops guarding mall parking lots for 8 bucks an hour.
 
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