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Harvey vs Hamels Friday night

Ninetynine5.0 said:
Good regular season, heavy favorite, lost to lesser teams. Choke is a choke. Was never like they were some rag tag wild card team. Heavy favorite, usually form April onwards, fell well short. Good Nats impression.
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Quite a stretch. No shame in '09 Phils losing in WS to the Yanks, or even in 2010 in LCS to the Giants really, but obviously disappointing. Losing to the Cards the next season was a blow, for sure.

Only a Mets fan would equate choking away a division in epic fashion two straight years and completely missing the playoffs like '07-'08 Mets, or failing to win a series in three consecutive years as a heavy favorite (missing the playoffs once in there) with the Phils' output from '09-'11. Quality stuff.
 
Ryan Howard of all people getting it done vs the new King of New York, Matt Harvey. Must have been thinking about his newfound stardom and the Mets' run at another Memorial Day title when pitching to him.

Don't look now, but Howard's numbers actually don't look too bad after a terrible start. .794 OPS, 6 HR, 15 RBI. (Something for everyone in those stats.)

Both RH and the Queen doing a little something for their trade value too--moreso RH as not sure the Mets lineup is really a major league lineup.
 
Embarrassing for a pitcher of Harvey's caliber to lose to a lineup like the Phils. Los mets really stinking up the joint lately.
 
Is Harvey the new king of the QS while chalking up an L to the lowly Phils?
 
Not to be all Marcus Hayes but how racist are phils fans? If Howard were hitting 0.99 and batting 3rd, he'd be lynched by now. Instead, Utley gets polite encouragement applause after hitting into a double play like a little leaguer.
 
I'd say CoP bitterness right now is reaching the high water mark at this point, but I think we might have more room left here. Since the collapse of the Eagles, and knowing how bleak their baseball future is, best they can do is take shots now. In the words of Henry Hill : " and this? this was the bad time".
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
I'd say CoP bitterness right now is reaching the high water mark at this point, but I think we might have more room left here. Since the collapse of the Eagles, and knowing how bleak their baseball future is, best they can do is take shots now. In the words of Henry Hill : " and this? this was the bad time".
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Back to the "bitter" routine? You just cycle through schtick
 
MakingLove2BeckyLobo said:
Not to be all Marcus Hayes but how racist are phils fans? If Howard were hitting 0.99 and batting 3rd, he'd be lynched by now. Instead, Utley gets polite encouragement applause after hitting into a double play like a little leaguer.
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I've been saying this forever.....

Booing is dumb to begin with, but listening to some justify why not to boo Utley when it's never been a problem to do towards Howard and Rolkins speaks volumes.

Yep, Burrs has been on this for some time now. The leash for talented black baseball players has always been much shorter.
 
lowry99 said:
Both RH and the Queen doing a little something for their trade value too--moreso RH as not sure the Mets lineup is really a major league lineup.
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It's getting rather interesting watching this Hamels market take shape. Wainright out for season, McCarthy down for good in LA, the Yankees playing well and surely not settled in their rotation (Tanaka concerns), and let's not forget about the #1 possibility Boston Red Sox.

While Hamels is out-pitching arguably the best pitcher in baseball the Red Sox are seeing the likes of Wade Miley lead them to a 7-0 loss to the Blue Jays. Man, that BOS rotation is rather pitiful. Hamels moves to (9-0) in the last two years when the offense scores 3 runs for him. Sounds perfect for Beantown to me. But don't give in RAJ. Yes, as they try to prey on your previous mistakes and wait for you to settle. No need to do anything hastily. In other words f*ck them. Pay or continue to send slop to the hill after spending hundreds of millions on offense this past offseason. And even with the Buster Olney's of the world helping you shape an inaccurate narrative. Laughable.
 
If the Red Sox had a history of giving away prospects (nothing really in the Cheerington regime, and nothing since semi disastrous Adrian Gonzalez) - or if they were a starting pitcher away from being in contention, I'd be more incloned to see it. Makes a lot of sense - just not sure it will happen.
 
Obviously, if they grossly underachieve and drift away then all bets are off for them. But I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they'll right the ship at least partially and find themselves in the midst of a race. You don't spend all that money on offense and then get stubborn enough to walk away from a guy that easily moves to the top of your rotation because of players who may or may not be good major leaguers.

Regardless, of what happens with them there should be plenty of suitors as these months go by. You have mentioned the Yankees in the past and I could very well see them jumping on here, especially if they think, hey we could be players for a title here.

I just think from a Phillies standpoint what has happened around the league concerning SP couldn't be better.
 
They can get Cueto for a ton less. Why mortgage the farm on Hamels? They won't.
 
Someone will give a decent prospect and a maybe two low level kids for him. Simialr to the CC trade to the Brewers. That netted exactly dick in the end for the Indians, but you never know. Depsite last night, Hamels has not been that great this year at all.
 
adp98 said:
They can get Cueto for a ton less. Why mortgage the farm on Hamels? They won't.
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Who said mortgage the farm? Let's keep it intellectually honest, please.....

There will be more than one team looking for starting pitching.
 
Burrs, the Phillies GM has made it clear Hamels won't be moved unless they get a. Godfather offer. The Sox aren't giving it. Seriously, keep up.
 
Lowry, Ryan Howard has no trade value. That's why he's a Phillie. Literally, his value is nothing. No team would pay him, let alone give something of value in return to pay him.
 
adp98 said:
Burrs, the Phillies GM has made it clear Hamels won't be moved unless they get a. Godfather offer. The Sox aren't giving it. Seriously, keep up.
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Please produce this quote.....

It's not about making Cole happy and Red Sox happy. All parties need to be satisfied here.
 
adp98 said:
Lowry, Ryan Howard has no trade value. That's why he's a Phillie. Literally, his value is nothing. No team would pay him, let alone give something of value in return to pay him.
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I agree with this. This ship sailed many moons ago. Best case scenario is that he's reasonably productive and AL team takes a flyer with Phillies eating a minimum of 50 of 60 million left.
 
Are you serious? You and I had debates around the subject. Ruben has said it multiple times in the public. He's been very clear he needs to be blown away to get Hamels. Are you, the king of Philly sports, now trying to debate this fact? You have absolutely zero credibility on the subject if your new stance is that RAJ hasn't been driving a hard line. Why in the world you do you think Hamels is still a Phillie? They've been trying to trade the guy for 6 months.
 
From January

“I think Cole Hamels is going to be in our uniform, frankly. I don’t really foresee him being moved. It is possible because we’re literally keeping our minds and eyes and ears open on every player that we have on our roster. That said, he’s one of the best pitchers in baseball. And so, if we were to move him, we’re going to have to get some of the best prospects in baseball back.”


Phils best hope right now is that he puts up about 4 more starts like last night. Then they might get one guy back in the top 75 or so, and maybe a live arm in currently in A ball.
 
Ninetynine5.0 said:
Someone will give a decent prospect and a maybe two low level kids for him. Simialr to the CC trade to the Brewers. That netted exactly dick in the end for the Indians, but you never know. Depsite last night, Hamels has not been that great this year at all.
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Hamels had a 4.06 on June 6th last year and typically doesn't start well. He went onto have a strong year a season to go. Reasonable to believe same can happen. He'll be one of the top two SP available and will be under control for a team friendly number for the following 3/4 years.

I'm pretty sure Laporta was considered one of MIL top prospects.

Hamels is worth more than decent. And if not then continue to trot out lesser pitchers and lessen your chances of postseason success. No sweat off my back or the GMs. This isn't about the Phillies saving money. There is no pressure to trade him from that perspective.
 
adp98 said:
Are you serious? You and I had debates around the subject. Ruben has said it multiple times in the public. He's been very clear he needs to be blown away to get Hamels. Are you, the king of Philly sports, now trying to debate this fact? You have absolutely zero credibility on the subject if your new stance is that RAJ hasn't been driving a hard line. Why in the world you do you think Hamels is still a Phillie? They've been trying to trade the guy for 6 months.
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Of course, he has been driving a hard line. Do you expect him to give him away?

What's your definition of mortgaging the farm? Let's start there. Let me hear this.
 
Burrs, I read here that Hamels would fetch a top 20 prospect and 2 top 100 prospects. And the Phillies would do this without eating a penny of the contract.
 
MakingLove2BeckyLobo said:
The 3 (dick)headed argue monster of burrs/99/adp invades this thread too.
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No one asked those other two to inject their hate. I simply said that what has happened in baseball so far is good for the Phillies in their quest to move Hamels.
 
No one is hating. You don't hate 90+ loss teams.
 
One top 20 prospect and two top 100. Both you and Dmil proclaimed how this would happen. Note, Dmil has clearly seen the error in his ways and adjusted. You and I traded a few hundred posts on the subject. All the sudden you go Andy Petitie and mis-remember? However, let's get back to this silly idea anyone hates on the Phillies. They are too pathetic for haters. You don't hate on last place teams.
 
adp98 said:
One top 20 prospect and two top 100. Both you and Dmil proclaimed how this would happen. Note, Dmil has clearly seen the error in his ways and adjusted. You and I traded a few hundred posts on the subject. All the sudden you go Andy Petitie and mis-remember? However, let's get back to this silly idea anyone hates on the Phillies. They are too pathetic for haters. You don't hate on last place teams.
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One, it's not Phillies hate. We agree they suck. It's Hamels' worth hate. Pay attention....

Next, no I did not say three top 100 MLB prospects. Some teams might not have three in the top 100. And if they did that could arguably be their top three prospects. I never said that. We actually went at it about Top 25 prospects and I said this might not be possible because some of the teams holding such prospects won't even be in play for a Hamel's trade. ie Twins, Astros....I remember it like it was yesterday.

I'll repeat what I said all along. Hamels' is worth a top 3 prospect from the team who wants him. He's also worth another top 10 from said team. And the third piece with be either another top 20 prospect from said team, maybe an A-ball player with decent upside or a younger player already in major leagues.
 
"Pay attention" has to be the worst new catch phrase you 3 idiots throw around when you have your little dick waving contests.

In no particular order
1) full marks
2) pay attention
3) cap tip
4) intellectual dishonesty
5) moving goalposts
6) incontrovertible truth (semi-retired)
 
wcburrs87 said:
I've been saying this forever.....

Booing is dumb to begin with, but listening to some justify why not to boo Utley when it's never been a problem to do towards Howard and Rolkins speaks volumes.

Yep, Burrs has been on this for some time now. The leash for talented black baseball players has always been much shorter.
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Utley gets a standing ovation for pinch hitting? If Howard was announced as a pinch hitter with a 0.99 average, they'd chant the N word at him.
 
99 was in favor of dealing him over the winter , is in favor of dealing him now( as in by June 1) and do not recall ever saying he would generate any kind of major haul because no one gives up that much anymore. Said they have a shot to get a top 75 guy or so and some live arms from the lower levels. Pretty much true today - best they will do. Unlike the Royals - who deal Greinke in the winter - I do not see the Phils having anywhere near the Royals baseball acumen to do productive due diligence. That trade set the Royals up to turn the corner. Nothing to portend the Phila can do that here. They could get lucky I guess.
 
The Royals acumen. Phew. Yea, I get it there time has finally come. But one playoff appearance in 25 years and 19 losing seasons. Yep, that's some acumen.

Could someone define for me what major haul means?
 
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