Actually, this was only part of it. There are certainly other factors. But why let intellectual honesty get in the way.
Harvey vs Hamels Friday night
- Thread starter MakingLove2BeckyLobo
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Actually, this was only part of it. There are certainly other factors. But why let intellectual honesty get in the way.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I think that they have given up on Ryan Howard. He's been an unproductive gimp ata power position for 4 years now (cumulative WAR of -2.0). They have already exercised all their rage in regards to him and have resigned themselves to seeing another 190 Ks each year for the next 3 years while RAJ waits for an AL team to offer their top 3 prospects for him.
Chaz Utley isn't his old self, but he showed signs of life last year. Maybe he switched "vitamin" providers in the offseason.
Not at all - played a late hockey game and was up enjoying NYR on DVR. And i rarely drink scotch. Pay attention.
Disagree. Yes, they didn't draft well with picks they did have, but they rarely had 1st RD picks between 06-12. During those years their highest picks were supplemental picks between rounds 1-2. They included pick 37, 37, 34, No pick one year, 39, 40. Had true 1st Rders at 24 & 27.
Meanwhile, your squad was picking Zimmerman 4th, Detwiller 7th, Strasburg 1st, Storen 10th, Harper 1st, and Rendon 6th.
Yea, I know it's not the NBA but let's not pretend that the odds of hitting aren't much higher with early picks.
Oh what do you know. The Phillies have had two recent high picks and both of them are regarded as top 40 prospects.
Beat it. It's a factor. As well as trading some young guys in going for titles. As well as waiting too long to move on from an aging core.
Organizational depth in baseball is all about hitting many draft picks in mutilple drafts. It's the largest crap shoot in all sporting drafts. Your position is absolutely silly. You're going back 10 years for the Nats and pulling out Detwiler. Shows the silliness. You don't understand the process. It's about drafting and developing talent. RAJ has been horrific in this regard. This isn't the NBA where you draft guys and they play minutes day one. You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. If draft and then develop. It's a two step process and why some teams are able to do it, see Cardinals-Giants and now the Nats. You don't just plug and play baseball players. You have a system that goes all the way through your minor league teams. Phils are god awful in this regard.
Nola and Franco have really been killing it in the minors this season so far, that is great to see and is really needed. I expect we will see Franco called up within the week as they will then have control over his rights until 2021. They could wait until July if they don't want to let him obtain Super 2 arbitration status, but that doesn't seem like something the Phillies will be doing. I suspect you will see Franco get every chance to play at 3B (and occasionally at 1B) with Asche getting some time in LF.
Nola may be a September call up, but no need to rush him.
http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-p...llies-report-aaron-nola-maikel-franco-rolling
Nola may be a September call up, but no need to rush him.
http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-p...llies-report-aaron-nola-maikel-franco-rolling
ADP, are you really going to suggest that drafting Bruce Harper and Stephen Strasburg were crapshoots? C'mon brother...
Listen, I agree with your overall premise about organizational depth and drafting players not being an exact science. I agree with the developmental aspect of it. Those are fair comments.
Still, simple yes or no? Outside of Detwiler, are those players I named important parts of the Nats' today? Were they not all top 10 picks? Again, yes or no?
Don't sit here and tell me that drafting high doesn't increase your chances of hitting on players. Please, don't be fukking silly.
Were the Phillies awful in that regard when they developed Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, Ruiz, etc as main cogs in a very good run? Were they awful when they properly scouted the likes of Werth and Victorino before they did one thing at the ML level? It comes in cycles, brother.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I don't get the Franco hating. 22 y/o and has shown some flashes. He should be in there every day now. What are the odds that you actually give a crap about whether he's a free agent in 2020 or 2021? It's not like he's the next Mickey Mantle or anything.
Agree. But I can live with a the end of May call-up.
You can't go by sporadic September call-up numbers. Not every one lights it up from day one. Look at BOS. Bogaerts, Betts, and Swilhart have all struggled to a degree so far.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
The May callup to delay the start of their service clock makes sense when it's the sensational, sure fire first round pick who burned through 4 levels of minor league ball in 18 months and who is 50/50 to turn into a multi-year all-star. What's Franco's celing? Pedro Feliz without the solid defense? Get him in the majors and see what you've got ASAP. If he thrives, then he thrives earlier and helps turn the franchise around a little sooner. If he blows, then you move on to the next guy in the pipeline.
No, as you guys like to remind everyone those were once in a generation opportunities. However, Mike Trout was the 24th pick in the draft. Strasburg is the same guy all of you call a bust. The Nats are where they are because they have depth all throughout the organization. They drafted very well and made outstanding trades. It's not because of having two top picks that flame out more times the not. Suggesting that demonstrates you don't understand baseball. Look at moves made this off-season. They got Turner and Cole for Souza, another guy they develped. They restocked from a position of strength. They added Escobar for next to nothing. You need depth at 3 levels of your system. The Phillies and RAJ specifically completely gutted their system. Then to compound they failed to draft and develop players for a good 10 years. It's the same thing the Yankees did along with many other teams. It's why the Pirates sucked for 20 years. It's why KC sucked for 20 years. These things don't just go in cycles where teams get lucky.
Burrs, here is a very specific example of why Rizzo is so good and RAJ sucks: this off-season Rizzo took Tyler Clippard, a guy who was a reliever one year from FA getting paid $7 Mil and Stephen Souza, a 25 year old minor leaguer, Ross Detwiler who could be our 7th starter and turned them into Trea Turner, a top 60 prospect at a position of need, AJ Cole, a top 70 propsect, Escobar who fills a huge need and been awesome as well as additional high level prospects. You guy can't even get that much for Cole freaking Hamels.
I never called Strasburg a bust.
We are in agreement that the Phillies traded away minor leaguers. They did so to try to win. (And only a couple of these guys seem poised to be impact major leaguers at this point) Now, you can disagree with that way of thinking, but that's why they did it. They also didn't have opportunities to draft high. All of this is in play. See, when the Nats sucked (You don't remember because you weren't a fan then) they were able to draft very high and they were fortunate to suck at the right time. The core of their team come from said top 10 picks.
I get it. All you can hang your hat on right now is, see they didn't stick with or overpay player X-Y-Z. But they still haven't won a playoff series yet either....to each is own.
My understanding was that last year's draft wasn't that strong and I don't recall any of the talking heads blasting that pick. He pitched well so far and is currently ranked in the top 50, so he can't be that bad.
Nola was projected as a top 10 pick by just about everyone. I remember watching that draft and even Keith Law praised the pick. And we all know he's not a fan of how the Phillies do things.
Anyway, I look forward to Demond, J. Zimmerman, Fister, and maybe some others parting ways from the Nats next year and you puffing out your chest on Rizzo's unbelievable savvy and knowledge of the game. I just hope they win a playoff series this time around.
Anyway, I look forward to Demond, J. Zimmerman, Fister, and maybe some others parting ways from the Nats next year and you puffing out your chest on Rizzo's unbelievable savvy and knowledge of the game. I just hope they win a playoff series this time around.
Keith Law calls him a number 3 starter. That's the point. You can have a top 10 pick and even if you love the pick the guy projects as a 3rd starter. Nats have 3-4 aces. These guys weren't all top 10 picks. Gio was a trade, Schezer FA, Fister we got for nothing, Zimmermann was the third pitcher drafted in 2007 by Nats. He was the 67th pick in the draft. You can't just get lucky with top 10 picks. That comment you made was so laughable. I'm not knocking Nola but pointing out how hard it is to build a baseball team/organizational depth by simply looking at top 10 picks. Crazy talk. It's not just a matter of having some top 10 picks a la the NBA. Again, you're proving my points for me. Nola was considered the most MLB ready pitcher. He went 7th in the draft and projects as of good 3, maybe number 2 on a bad team. That's his ceiling and considered a good pick there.
Is Keith Law God? We'll discuss Nola when he spends some time in the major leagues.
How many times do I have to say that I agree with your premise. I agree you have to draft well throughout rounds, you have to scout well, you have to make sounds decisions in FAs, you need some luck, too.
Just don't tell me that high picks aren't beneficial and more likely to hit when the Nats core is littered with them.
How many times do I have to say that I agree with your premise. I agree you have to draft well throughout rounds, you have to scout well, you have to make sounds decisions in FAs, you need some luck, too.
Just don't tell me that high picks aren't beneficial and more likely to hit when the Nats core is littered with them.
Burrs, you cited Keith Law as liking the pick and now question if he's god? No, but he projects Nola as a third starter and he liked the pick. So you did a good job of proving my point and Keith Law agrees. Good pick, not a franchise or even solid number 2 but you don't get many of those in the top 10 of any draft. Now the Nats did get Giolito at 16 and he's the number one pitching prospect in the minors. Rizzo obviously does a bit better job but again nothing guaranteed.
First, I cited most talking heads like the pick. He was projected as a top 10 pick. They took him 7th. I don't see one baseball guy rip the pick, including Keith Law who rarely has anything nice to say about the Phillies.
Maybe, he'll be better than that. Like you said, no guarantees and that works both ways. I doubt people were touting Greg Maddux as a #1 when he was drafted.
Maybe, he'll be better than that. Like you said, no guarantees and that works both ways. I doubt people were touting Greg Maddux as a #1 when he was drafted.
Burrs, you cited Keith Law as liking the pick and now question if he's god? No, but he projects Nola as a third starter and he liked the pick. So you did a good job of proving my point and Keith Law agrees. Good pick, not a franchise or even solid number 2 but you don't get many of those in the top 10 of any draft. Nats did get Giolito at 16 and he's the number one pitching prospect in the minors. Rizzo obviously does a bit better job but again nothing guaranteed.
Let's be clear: read this again as you specifically cited Keith Law. All I'm asking is for a little consistency from you. You're here citing playoff wins but giving RAJ pass in the same thread saying it's not his fault the players lost. You've become completely unglued here. No consistency on anything. You're like those Catholics STRICK says picks and chooses when they apply said values.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Nola is projected as a 3rd starter because his fastball tops out in the low low 90s. It's hard to talk down on his minor league numbers so far, 17 starts, 2.5 ERA, WHIP 0.95, but given his velocity, I can see how some would project his results to slow down once he faces more advanced hitters.
Those teams won all year and lost in the playoffs. They had enough to win. I don't blame RAJ for those playoff loses. Just like I don't blame Rizzo for the Nats' playoff loses. I blame the players in those cases. Furthermore, I don't blame RAJ for all of the bad decisions. I believe he was directed to do so in some cases. So, he shares the blame in my book. Regardless, I never spoke of RAJ as some sort of savant GM. You do worship Rizzo. Again, there lies the difference. I've been very consistent throughout here. You're just reading parts you want to read and ignoring other parts.
Burrs, let's be clear: I don't worship anyone involved in sports. No calf tatoos, 4X4ness or blind homerism from me. I simply like to tweak you guys. My father, despite being a liberal, is about the closest thing I come to putting someone in such high regard.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Amaro seems like a guy who takes pride in his job. how can he look at this team and say i did a good job. this is the worst Phillies team since the late 80s, very early 90s. Asche, Revere, Brown, Seizmore, Francoeur and Herrera in the OF, Ruf, Howard, Utley, Galvis, Hernandez in the infield. horrible starting pitching. they will be lucky not to lose 110 games.
how does Amaro still have a job? he has failed in everything he has done.
how does Amaro still have a job? he has failed in everything he has done.
He's got plenty of apologists here. That's for sure. Feels like if you took the local temperature the seat isnt that hot yet.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
He is an extremely close family friend of the ownership group. He's been with the organization for 20+ years. That can be the only reason.
As well as Montgomery and Co. ordering him to do some of the moves and signings along the way. Do you people really believe this didn't happen? That he's the lone mad scientist here? C'mon, fellas.
He'll more than likely be gone after this season. No sleep will be lost.
And Novaball, they were very honest about what to expect this year. No one said here's our team and we expect to contend.
I can't watch this team anymore with the crap starting pitching they have. Their offense is terrible, but it's hard when you are always down early in the game. It seems like every batter they walk comes around to score. It's going to be a loooooong summer with shit baseball like this. I hope that Franco can bring some excitement to the team, they really need it. I can't even convince anyone to go down to the game tonight to see Hamels pitch. At least he is worth a cheap ticket on stubhub.