http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/health/planned-parenthood-undercover-video/
anyone else see this. Disgraceful
anyone else see this. Disgraceful
Planned Parenthood
- Thread starter pipermal1
- Start date
I still can't believe thats for real. She is eating and drinking away talking about lower extremities and organs being sold and how they take extreme care not to damage them during an abortion by crushing below and above. I would hope even progressive liberals would be against this but then again its their program so .....
I think the GOP is backwards on a lot of social issues, but I don't mind one-issue voters who are passionate against abortion. Frankly, abortion is one of the only politically charged topics I care about. Since the laws are never going to change on it, no reason to get all fired up over it.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Sure it is, bro. Your philosophy on fetal life determines whether it's harvesting of remains or just mere bodily tissue.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Ask some liberal lady friends. You will hear a defense. Be warned... it might not use things like science and logic.
Consequentialism should not be used as a foundation for justice here (or in most cases).
The worst are the rape and incest red herring. Basically, when someone brings one of those two things up, they're saying that people who are the product of rape or incest have less inherent value than people who aren't.
I think what TFE is getting at (though I may be way off base here) is a fetus who is the product of incest/rape, and thus not conceived with mutual consent, devalues the fetus' right to be born and increases the right of the mother to protect her own body/health.
It follows, if a fetus is conceived with mutual consent, the fetus would have more inherent right to life.
I'm not sure anyone has the authority, moral or legal to determine "the fetus' right to be born." While a child conceived without mutual consent may be a burden to one or both parties, the child is the product of a biological function that's none of its fault and the child is innocent so it should be born.
I'm saying that it's an insult to people who are already born who were the product of rape or incest.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
That's great in theory, but life isn't fair. People who cannot support a child have no business seeing out a pregnancy to term. Some of them actually make the right choice and abort.
Funny, I never mentioned the economic status of the couple. Maybe rape is confined to poor people? Why didn't I think of that? It all makes sense now. Abort those damn poor fetuses! They have no right to live!
I'm not in favor of making abortion illegal. I just want people who support it to recognize that it is a form of homicide. It is in fact the taking of a human life and not the removal of a clump of cells or whatever people say to try to justify it.
Super disturbing two sentences, in my opinion.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
My sentiments exactly, TFE.
Taken individually both statements in pipermal1's post are true. But, I'm not sure you could prove a direct connection between the two although I tend to agree it's true. Planned Parenthood is a "for profit" business model that, unfortunately, we have now found out is in the business of selling baby organs! It disgusts me!
All we have is consciousness, nothing else really matters.
I've spoken with the poorest of the poor through various volunteer projects, and associated with people from oil/big money, all people deserve a shot in this life. Frankly, a lot of the poorest people I've spoken with (born into worse conditions than many of us can imagine), have a greater appreciation of life than we will ever know.
I know crime rates go down with abortion. I know illegal/black market abortions happen if it's not legal (and there are compelling reasons to legalize it because of this), but I can't see us justifying an act we all know is wrong because of potential consequences.
I've spoken with the poorest of the poor through various volunteer projects, and associated with people from oil/big money, all people deserve a shot in this life. Frankly, a lot of the poorest people I've spoken with (born into worse conditions than many of us can imagine), have a greater appreciation of life than we will ever know.
I know crime rates go down with abortion. I know illegal/black market abortions happen if it's not legal (and there are compelling reasons to legalize it because of this), but I can't see us justifying an act we all know is wrong because of potential consequences.
No one "wants" to have an abortion. But is is necessary. Roe v. Wade was in '73, correct? Now, try to imagine 40+ years of every fetus being born in this country, no matter the circumstances, as if abortion was illegal. Do you like what you see?
Mary wouldn't have had to make up that ridiculous story if ancient Judea had included a Planned Parenthood office or two.
Could have saved us a couple thousand years of silliness...
Could have saved us a couple thousand years of silliness...
It's not whether we "like" what we see, it's about fairness. Humans have an inherent right to life, and therefore a right to be born after conception, regardless of the random social/economical circumstances under which they happen to be born.
The population/crime control arguments are absurd. Projecting criminality onto unborn children is wrong on a few different levels, primarily appealing to probability.
How can you say its not true. They are profiting off selling organs. They are not giving them away for scientific study they are selling them for profit.
No man has a right to tell a woman what to do with their body.
We don't have to face this issue on the psychological level they do, so who are we to tell them how to approach it?
You don't think women who get abortions stay up at night thinking about how they basically murdered someone? This is not our ball game
We don't have to face this issue on the psychological level they do, so who are we to tell them how to approach it?
You don't think women who get abortions stay up at night thinking about how they basically murdered someone? This is not our ball game
So you disagree with Roe v. Wade, fine. Good luck waiting the rest of your life for the Supreme Court to reverse that. It must be unbearable for you pro-lifers to wake up every morning knowing that x number of abortions occur each day.
The unborn do not have the kind of rights you believe they do - sorry. And it's pretty obvious that if you knocked a girl up, you'd pressure her to have the kid so heavily I doubt her *choice* in the matter would even come into play...so this doesn't even affect you.
Decision is never getting overturned. Bugs me, but few things in politics change no matter who is in office. That's why it's not worth getting in a fuss over.
I like snottie, but I think I can respectfully disagree on this one. As far as a man not telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body, that's fine. Problem is the body they are disposing of isn't their body. I don't think we should be accepting, as a society, of violence in any fashion (towards others or oneself -- abortion fits both categories).
I like snottie, but I think I can respectfully disagree on this one. As far as a man not telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body, that's fine. Problem is the body they are disposing of isn't their body. I don't think we should be accepting, as a society, of violence in any fashion (towards others or oneself -- abortion fits both categories).
I don't agree with abortion and think it's basically the murdering of an unborn child. Having said that, I believe every woman should make the decision of what is morally correct for her. But, I have no doubt that aborting fetuses to sell their organs is an ultimate EVIL! Those who believe that it's OK based on the notion of economic status are not much different than the Nazis who believed it was OK to abort non-Arians.
Look, if you believe it's murdering an unborn child then there is no moral ambiguity. Why should it be left up to an individual to decide? The reason we have laws is to protect us from individuals deciding on their own what's right.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Because we live in an open society with individual freedoms. Just because I believe it's murder doesn't give me the right to impose that view on another person or persons. It's a free will decision by the woman who, ultimately, will have to face the consequences for her decision.
Wait, the govt cannot outlaw murder?
Roe v. Wade may not be overturned but it provides a balance between the fetus' life and a compelling state interest in preserving it and a woman's right to make reproductive choices. There is a lot of room for adjustment. Restrictions on age of the fetus will gradually increase in my opinion. 12 - 16 weeks is probably about where it will ultimately land. There are a lot more birth control alternatives than there were before Roe v. Wade. Only the ignorant or irresponsible should need an abortion anyway (with a few exceptions).
Roe v. Wade may not be overturned but it provides a balance between the fetus' life and a compelling state interest in preserving it and a woman's right to make reproductive choices. There is a lot of room for adjustment. Restrictions on age of the fetus will gradually increase in my opinion. 12 - 16 weeks is probably about where it will ultimately land. There are a lot more birth control alternatives than there were before Roe v. Wade. Only the ignorant or irresponsible should need an abortion anyway (with a few exceptions).
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