What makes a sport "good?"

[BigEastBasketball]

Been thinking about this based on ball's post on the other board. Why do some sports succeed (like the NFL) while others languish in obscurity (Kronum)? It has to be more than just game play. Basketball, Hockey, and Lacrosse have the same basic setup and game movement, yet serve 3 wildly different markets.

For me, if I didn't go to Villanova I probably wouldn't give a damn about college basketball. My sport has always been baseball. I love it for the complexity, the history, and its year-round nature. If you are a solid baseball fan there is always something to talk about, and baseball seems to envelop cities when a team is doing well like no other sport.

Football is the most popular sport in America, seemingly for social reasons (few games, only 1 day a week, easy to learn rules and follow). As far as gameplay goes, I think it's only so-so. There doesn't seem to be a lot of strategic creativity like you get in college football and, over the last 5 or so years, baseball.

I enjoy basketball because I like watching Villanova, but sometimes the gameplay can be downright brutal. Turnover, whistle, turnover. Not necessarily us, but just turning on some random game on a Tuesday night isn't something that interests me. I thought the NBA would be better to watch since there is more scoring, but I was wrong.

I enjoyed watching hockey as a kid, but now I don't. I stopped watching when that strike happened and just never gave a shit afterwards. I still think the gameplay is interesting and I love the concept of power plays. Just not worth my time to figure everything out again.

Soccer seems to be picking up steam after about 20 years of people saying it was the next big sport in America. I don't like it, so I don't watch it, but there is something palatable about soccer that is finally getting Americans interested.

"What do you guys think?"

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Football will always be successful in america because you really don't have to pay that much attention to enjoy it. There is like 12 minutes of actual action spread out over 3 and a half hours. The rest of that time, you can be drinking, eating, or talking to your drunken idiot friends.

 

[NickleDimer]

Football - gr8 action,excitement, physicality. Too hard to determine exactly why a play worked or didn't work. I don't know sh*t about blocking or schemes.
Basketball - easiest rules to follow. push/slap/blocking ball handler is a fould, put ball in hoop, stay in bounds.
Baseball - a lot of downtown and inaction. But the highs are really high.
Hockey - fun to watch but to an uneducated observer like myself, it seems like random luck with all the bounces of the puck.
Soccer - gr8 to watch at the very highest level. Crap otherwise.

 

[hawkdog14]

football is dominant because of gamblers and the fact that most games are on saturdays and sundays
baseball because of it's history and because there is still something fun about catching a game in the summer, either live or on tv, and enjoying a beer as you do.
basketball is very accessible to people as they grow up since you can play it with any number of people. also basketball when the game flows without a lot of whistles is a great tv sport.
hockey - regular season is just awful but the playoffs are as good as any sport going. the level of intensity in the Stanley Cup playoffs is off the charts.
Soccer - agree above. highest level is great but soccer in the US especially is horrible. the MLS is like DIII basketball. who is going to want to watch that?

 

[TheDean]

I look for outright atheticism combined with the highest level of execution of skills needed to succeed at the sport.

When I watch the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, English Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A, I know I am getting that. I don't bother with women's sports or "minor" leagues. But I do watch NCAA basketball and footlball because many of those players are going pro.

 

[BigEastBasketball]

I look for outright atheticism combined with the highest level of execution of skills needed to succeed at the sport.

When I watch the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, English Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A, I know I am getting that. I don't bother with women's sports or "minor" leagues. But I do watch NCAA basketball and footlball because many of those players are going pro.

So why not watch track and swimming? Or speed skating? I'm not hating, I just want to know what people are actually looking for in sports. Seems like there's a lot of outright athleticism in these events.

 

[TheDean]

So why not watch track and swimming? Or speed skating? I'm not hating, I just want to know what people are actually looking for in sports. Seems like there's a lot of outright athleticism in these events.

Oh yeah, I watch a ton of individual - event sports. Summer Olympics, a lot of skiing, some boxing.

 

[nardibynature2]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest in what sport I think is "good" or not. Sports that I find I have a level of enjoyment in are sports that I can watch that my "team" is not involved. If I don't have a "team" than I am probably not interested in the sport to begin with.

 

[dirtyd]

A reason I like football is that it's once a week. Every game means a lot more than a nightly baseball game, every other night NBA game, etc. A lot more on the line every week.

Although I follow the other sports, I rarely watch a regular season NBA, MLB, etc game. Plus I don't have the time to tune-in numerous times per week; especially after working all day.

 

[Mainliner II]

Need to break down sports into Spectator sports & Participation sports..........they do overlap, but, they don't intertwine .....

 

[BigEastBasketball]

A reason I like football is that it's once a week. Every game means a lot more than a nightly baseball game, every other night NBA game, etc. A lot more on the line every week.

Although I follow the other sports, I rarely watch a regular season NBA, MLB, etc game. Plus I don't have the time to tune-in numerous times per week; especially after working all day.

So are the olympics way better than football because they only occur every two years (or every four years if you are only talking about one particular flavor of olympics)?

I'm trying to strip away the social aspects of each sport (down time to be able to go get a beer, ability to go watch it at a bar, once a week nature so that it's not too much to keep up with) and see what about the gameplay makes one sport more enjoyable than another. Particularly in situations where gameplay/game movement is very similar, such as basketball/soccer/hockey/lacrosse, which to me are just subtle variations on the same basic sport.

 

[HereComeTheCats]

I watched the Kitzbuehel Downhill a few weeks ago and it was one of the most compelling sporting events I've ever seen. They had to suspend the event early because so many people were crashing.

 

[dirtyd]

So are the olympics way better than football because they only occur every two years (or every four years if you are only talking about one particular flavor of olympics)?

I'm trying to strip away the social aspects of each sport (down time to be able to go get a beer, ability to go watch it at a bar, once a week nature so that it's not too much to keep up with) and see what about the gameplay makes one sport more enjoyable than another. Particularly in situations where gameplay/game movement is very similar, such as basketball/soccer/hockey/lacrosse, which to me are just subtle variations on the same basic sport.

Of course not. I really don't care about most of those sports. Really don't know the athletes as much. Summer Olympics are worth a watch, because there is nothing else going on outside of MLB. Winter Olympics blow. Other sports going on that I care about and I never played any of the cold weather sports.

Again, just my opinion, but I think it has a lot to do with why football is the most popular sport. Lots of build-up all week. Lots of chatter, analysis, etc. End of the week is an extremely important game since there are only 16. Win/lose a game it's a big deal.

Win/lose an NBA game, no biggie, there are 81 more and half the damn league makes the playoffs anyways. Lose MLB game, definitely no biggie, try again for the next 161 days/nights.

 

[NickleDimer]

Win/lose an NBA game, no biggie, there are 81 more and half the damn league makes the playoffs anyways.

Making the playoffs takes decades of tanking and draft lottery roulette. It's a major accomplishment.
-Wcburrs87

 

[bgranc02]

I watched the Kitzbuehel Downhill a few weeks ago and it was one of the most compelling sporting events I've ever seen. They had to suspend the event early because so many people were crashing.

View embedded media

It aired the saturday morning of the blizzard, I watched a good chunk of it as well. If you liked the race I suggest renting Streif on amazon... its a doc about the race.

 

[tkuder007]

Baseball is not all that complex. Such an antiquated notion

 

[gldendog]

It aired the saturday morning of the blizzard, I watched a good chunk of it as well. If you liked the race I suggest renting Streif on amazon... its a doc about the race.

Something this can only be interesting when catastrophes are happening. Kind of like auto racing? I wouldn't know tho. I don't watch either.

 

[NickleDimer]

Baseball is not all that complex. Such an antiquated notion

Explaining balls and strikes, force plays, baserunning, etc. to kids is annoying.
Basketball is basically putting the ball in the hoop.
I still don't understand substitution and formation rules in football.

 

[LizReed]

Explaining balls and strikes, force plays, baserunning, etc. to kids is annoying.

Maybe you're not good at explaining things?

 

[NickleDimer]

Maybe you're not good at explaining things?

That's true. But this is independent of that.

You can succinctly explain the rules of Basketball without much effort:
Don't take more than two steps without dribbling. Put the ball in the basket. Stay in bounds. Stay in front of them on D but don't touch them.

You can't explain any one action in baseball that easily. Legal foot positioning on the pitching rubber is more complicated than that.

 

[HereComeTheCats]

Something this can only be interesting when catastrophes are happening. Kind of like auto racing? I wouldn't know tho. I don't watch either.

I agree that the crashes were what made the race I watched so compelling but it was because you got to see the danger of such a course and it gave you a lot more respect for the skiers who made it to the bottom successfully. It was also quite a scene to see those that did crash get airlifted out by a cable hanging from a helicopter.

Austria's team was decimated by crashes. The "home team" lost like 4 of 5 of their skiers between practice and the competition.

 

[HereComeTheCats]

That's true. But this is independent of that.

You can succinctly explain the rules of Basketball without much effort:
Don't take more than two steps without dribbling. Put the ball in the basket. Stay in bounds. Stay in front of them on D but don't touch them.

You can't explain any one action in baseball that easily. Legal foot positioning on the pitching rubber is more complicated than that.

It's a simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball.

 

[Burrs5]

Making the playoffs takes decades of tanking and draft lottery roulette. It's a major accomplishment.
-Wcburrs87

Yawn

 

[NickleDimer]

Yawn

Stay out of this, "alt".

 

[BCHoopster]

I think scoring and clear possession has something to do with popularity.

Basketball there is a lot of scoring. Team has shot clock amount of time to make an offensive play. Easy to follow.
Baseball, there may or may not be scoring. But it's easy to follow because only the offensive team can score. Scoring opportunities are obvious, particularly when a great hitter is at bat, or a runner is in scoring position.
Football there is a reasonable amount of scoring, and having possession is easy to follow. Scoring is almost assured when inside the 35, so you can kind of predict when a scoring play is coming. (this is why RedZone is successful for ESPN)

Hockey is like a pinball machine. Puck bouncing all over the place. Action is fast, but very seldom is there any build-up where you need to start paying more attention. Perhaps during power plays, but otherwise it's either goal or no goal.
Soccer is a slower version of hockey. Extremely low scoring, and sometimes possession is actually a bad thing (see Real Madrid's counter offense). Difficult to anticipate scoring unless it's a free kick or corner kick.
Lacrosse, Kronus and other similar... no idea.

I think for the popular sports, it's the anticipation of a scoring event, with enough notice to pay attention to see it through. This seems to be a good formula for the masses of casual fans.

 

[BigEastBasketball]

Excellent points. I also think that you have to have some amount of randomness/variability, but not too much. Nobody would watch baseball if the team with the higher payroll automatically won every game. But to me, sports like Hockey and Football have a little too much randomness to really give a fair outcome. One blown call in a football game can cost a touchdown, which can cost a game, which is important enough to make a difference in the overall season. A missed baserunning call in baseball, except in the playoffs, isn't likely to matter as much.

On the other side of the coin, randomness is why NASCAR is so much more popular than Formula 1. The cars are all just about as fast, and unpredictable enough to make the races interesting and not have the same guy win all the time. Plus, crashes. In Formula 1, even though the cars are faster in literally every respect, there's so little passing that it basically just turns into watching people drive around in circles while looking at a clock. If you manage to pass 10 people over the course of an entire season you're some hero.