Eagles to Trade up to #1 to select Mariotta. Official
- Thread starter Ninetynine5.0
- Start date
burrsies who has a better team around them, Tannehill or Foles?
who has a better offense?
better OLine?
you are the one to crucify others for blanket statements then you make them.
is Andy Dalton better than Tannehill because he gets to the playoffs while doing mostly nothing? how about Alex smith last year?
who has a better offense?
better OLine?
you are the one to crucify others for blanket statements then you make them.
is Andy Dalton better than Tannehill because he gets to the playoffs while doing mostly nothing? how about Alex smith last year?
I love when posters who don't normally use the "Burrsies" Ball-nutsucking tag. Let's me know I'm
Getting to them.
Anyway, Dalton and Smith are just ok, too. Middle of the road guys like Foles and Tannehill. Look, Tannehill is ok. Not sure why this is bothersome. If he ever exceeds this perception in the future then we can revisit it. You said Foles isn't a franchise QB? That statement might be true. Playing the percentages it probably is true. I have no issue with the comment. IMO, there is no evidence that Tannehill is either. Yet, you take exception to this. Ohh, that's right you're a Dolphins' fan. I get it now.
Getting to them.
Anyway, Dalton and Smith are just ok, too. Middle of the road guys like Foles and Tannehill. Look, Tannehill is ok. Not sure why this is bothersome. If he ever exceeds this perception in the future then we can revisit it. You said Foles isn't a franchise QB? That statement might be true. Playing the percentages it probably is true. I have no issue with the comment. IMO, there is no evidence that Tannehill is either. Yet, you take exception to this. Ohh, that's right you're a Dolphins' fan. I get it now.
who brought Tannehill and the Dolphins up first? it wasn't me.
so don't get pissed off at me when you bring up my team and I am defending the QB
Tannehill > Foles. sorry that facts hurt.
so don't get pissed off at me when you bring up my team and I am defending the QB
Tannehill > Foles. sorry that facts hurt.
Says who? You, a Dolphins fan? Got it....
regardless of who's better you're splitting hairs. They are both middle of the pack guys. You can do worse, but neither will more than likely ever be elite.
The fun thing here is that whatever success Foles may have will be because the Eagles have a better coach, OL, and players around him. Poor Tannehill will be the guy who doesn't have any support. How convenient.
For or those scoring at home.,..
Pro Bowls:
Foles 1
Tannehill 0
Playoff Starts:
Foles 1
Tannehill 0
Pro Bowls? COME ON. if someone brought up Pro Bowls as a stat, you would be ALL OVER that poster. you are much better than that.
the Dolphins also play in a division with the Patriots. the NFC East has been dogshit the past few years. but congrats on Foles' 1 playoff appearance, lets erect a statue.
create a poll for the board on who is better and who you'd want going forward.
the Dolphins also play in a division with the Patriots. the NFC East has been dogshit the past few years. but congrats on Foles' 1 playoff appearance, lets erect a statue.
create a poll for the board on who is better and who you'd want going forward.
No, let's not erect a statue. I'm felling you that I think Foles is ordinary. As is Tannehill.
Part of the reason the Patriots have has their way is because for the most part the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets have sucked. Let's not talk about divisions.
There are probably 14-15 QBs better than both of them. They probably sit in a group with 2-3 other guys. Hence, middle of the pack.
Part of the reason the Patriots have has their way is because for the most part the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets have sucked. Let's not talk about divisions.
There are probably 14-15 QBs better than both of them. They probably sit in a group with 2-3 other guys. Hence, middle of the pack.
Last few mock drafts I've seen have Mariotta sliding down to the #6 pick. Interesting. I bet the Birds could move up to #6 without giving up too much. #20, next year's #1 and Foles would certainly get it done. Probably could do it for less. You have to make that deal if you're both teams.
You think the Jets, at #6 with a new GM and new coach, are going to not ask for much to move down 14 spots? Not going to happen. That trade you propose would be laughed at by every single person in the room.
DMIL, I disagree. If you look at what it costs to move up from 20-6 that seems to be more than reasonable. Last year the Bills gave up a number 1 to go to 4 from 9. I laid out a better package. If the Birds gave up this year's 20th pick, next year's 1 and a player or mid-round pick the Jets might do it. Say instead of Foles a 3rd or 4th. I think they do the deal. Either way, it's not crazy as we saw last year.
Seriously, you are incredibly far off here. Not even i the same ball park. 5 spots and 14 spots is a huge difference in Rd 1, first of all. Look more at the Saints deal for Ricky Williams. That's what you're talking about here - particularly with this new Jets managemnet team - who are looking to go big here with the draft and in free agency. Tons of space, and in desperate need of a QB. They will not even try to sell something so dumb. No one has any interest in a Foles. They cut Sanchize who is better than Foles. At least, arguably. Foles might not even be as good as Geno Smith. So there is no interest there. So you're talking about dropping all the way down to 20 for a pick next year? Who would do that?
No chance. Zero. Laughable offer to any GM worth his weight.
So a trade from 12 to the 5 (far less than the Eagles have to move) is an outlier? Why? Because teams rarely trades up that far anymore because the price is too high?
How about the RG3 trade? Close enough for you? The Skins, in order to move up to FOUR SPACES to #2, - gave up their first-round picks in 2012 (No.6 overall), 2013 (No.22 overall),
and 2014 (No.2 overall), as well as their second-round pick (No.39
overall) in 2012.
To a team that ALREADY HAD Sam Bradford drafted 2 years prior.
That was to move up 4 spots, Not 14, and not for a player everyone knows the Eagles want. (and who is probably a better prospect than RG3 was at the same moment) .
So, let's just say Nick Foles and a couple of picks aint gonna cut it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Griffin_III#cite_note-redskins_rams_trade-45
That trade is the reason Mike Ditka is sitting at ESPN and doesn't have an NFL personel job. Terrible example. RGIII came out the same year as Luck and viewed as a number 1 pick. Remember some people actually debated to take him over Luck. This is a different year and both those trades were seen as horrendous. GM's have learned and you're simply not getting that kind of value for a QB who was mentioned as the no-brainer #1 pick and is now sliding down the draft board as correctly predicted. There is not the same value in that pick. If the Jets don't love Mariota that spot is a trade down candidate for a team to move up. However, if the value it crazy the Jets will make the pick. Maybe they don't even draft Mariota. . New GM, new coach we have no clue if they like Mariota or not. We do know once he gets past #2 he's sliding and the value to get him goes down. We'll see. We can both hypothesize all we want and make a case based on recent history. However, the reality is we won't know until draft day. It's clear he's no longer the clear cut #1 and could slide much more than anticipated. We'll see.
"GM's have learned "
That's funny.
Anyway - you've yet to give any semblance of a reason why the Jets would do this. Regardless - I guarantee you that despite your belief that 'GMs have learned' the Jets could do significantly better than the junk you seem to think the Eagles would offer. History tells us this is a stone cold fact. The Jets are not giving away this pick for two bottom of the first round picks and a mediocre QB. You know why? Because they probably know a shred of someting about football.
And for the record - there was no legitimate debate about RG3 over Luck. Zero. Luck was never not going #1. Ever.
This post was edited on 1/27 12:35 PM by Ninetynine5.0
That's funny.
Anyway - you've yet to give any semblance of a reason why the Jets would do this. Regardless - I guarantee you that despite your belief that 'GMs have learned' the Jets could do significantly better than the junk you seem to think the Eagles would offer. History tells us this is a stone cold fact. The Jets are not giving away this pick for two bottom of the first round picks and a mediocre QB. You know why? Because they probably know a shred of someting about football.
And for the record - there was no legitimate debate about RG3 over Luck. Zero. Luck was never not going #1. Ever.
This post was edited on 1/27 12:35 PM by Ninetynine5.0
Your balanced view has convinced me. The Jets will absolutely take Mariota if he falls to #6 or someone will have to give up 3 number picks for the 6th pick (who will have already slid from the potential #1 pick) in this year's draft. History clearly supports this case, especially with a guy projected on top of the draft board prior to his final game.
This post was edited on 1/27 1:38 PM by adp98
This post was edited on 1/27 1:38 PM by adp98
A few things here.....
Sanchez isn't better than Foles, but I don't think the gap is all that wide. Foles probably isn't at his ceiling and Sanchez is.
B$, why should everyone be fired if they draft Hundley? If they were to draft him, then that means they like him. Right? Now, there are hits and misses in the draft all of the time. I get that. But there are also smart people running most of these teams. So, as a fan, why should I not go with their opinion of a player and instead go with yours? Is it because you're in 4/5 fantasy leagues?
I lean towards Dmil's view with a trade. Maybe, you can scale his version down somewhat, but these guys value the crap out of these draft picks and if the Eagles really, really want this kid, then that alone is going to force the team with the pick to hold them hostage here. They are going to ask for a boatload. With that said, as a fan, I hope ADP's view is correct and if they do make a deal that they are able to fleece someone. Unlikely, though.
Sanchez isn't better than Foles, but I don't think the gap is all that wide. Foles probably isn't at his ceiling and Sanchez is.
B$, why should everyone be fired if they draft Hundley? If they were to draft him, then that means they like him. Right? Now, there are hits and misses in the draft all of the time. I get that. But there are also smart people running most of these teams. So, as a fan, why should I not go with their opinion of a player and instead go with yours? Is it because you're in 4/5 fantasy leagues?
I lean towards Dmil's view with a trade. Maybe, you can scale his version down somewhat, but these guys value the crap out of these draft picks and if the Eagles really, really want this kid, then that alone is going to force the team with the pick to hold them hostage here. They are going to ask for a boatload. With that said, as a fan, I hope ADP's view is correct and if they do make a deal that they are able to fleece someone. Unlikely, though.
The old NFL draft chart...ADP's trade from 20 to 6 seems fair, that is, if you
NYJ - 6th pick = 1600 points
PHL - 20th pick = 850 points
PHL - 84th pick = 170 points
Eagles 1st next year = 600 - 800 points (depends on where you think Eagles will end up and picks the following year are always worth less as the Eagles will likely land in the 16-26 pick...and while you usually say a pick the following year is worth that same pick one round later, 1st round picks always come at a premium)
I think that trade has value for both teams though if I were the Jets, I'd jump ALL over that. No one at 6 will help the Jets go from 4-12 to 9-7 and a potential Wildcard spot so get the extra picks.
That being said, IF Mariota were at 6, there could be upwards to 3-4 teams (St. Louis, Cleveland, Arizona, Houston) and the Jets would just go to the highest bidder and you know there would be an offer better than above because past trades have shown that QB's come at a premium in the draft.
In my opinion, if Mariota were there at 6, a team wouldn't pay 3 1st rounders for him because there would be offers from 3-5 if Mariota fell past Tennessee, but if he some how made it to 6 (which he won't) I would say this year's first, next year's first, 2 mid round picks and a player.
Maybe something like 6 for 20, 84, 110, next year's 1, and a player, likely someone like Nolan Carroll or someone like that.
NYJ - 6th pick = 1600 points
PHL - 20th pick = 850 points
PHL - 84th pick = 170 points
Eagles 1st next year = 600 - 800 points (depends on where you think Eagles will end up and picks the following year are always worth less as the Eagles will likely land in the 16-26 pick...and while you usually say a pick the following year is worth that same pick one round later, 1st round picks always come at a premium)
I think that trade has value for both teams though if I were the Jets, I'd jump ALL over that. No one at 6 will help the Jets go from 4-12 to 9-7 and a potential Wildcard spot so get the extra picks.
That being said, IF Mariota were at 6, there could be upwards to 3-4 teams (St. Louis, Cleveland, Arizona, Houston) and the Jets would just go to the highest bidder and you know there would be an offer better than above because past trades have shown that QB's come at a premium in the draft.
In my opinion, if Mariota were there at 6, a team wouldn't pay 3 1st rounders for him because there would be offers from 3-5 if Mariota fell past Tennessee, but if he some how made it to 6 (which he won't) I would say this year's first, next year's first, 2 mid round picks and a player.
Maybe something like 6 for 20, 84, 110, next year's 1, and a player, likely someone like Nolan Carroll or someone like that.
wow, nice shot!
why should anyone listen to you about anything sports related, then? especially since you have to chime in on EVERYTHING?
So, you can't answer my question? As a fan, why should I listen to you over the professionals that get paid to make these decisions? I never said you were wrong, but wanted to know why?
Also, how is you chiming in that the entire staff should be fired any different then when I chime in about something? Other than the blatant exaggeration part of it.
Also, how is you chiming in that the entire staff should be fired any different then when I chime in about something? Other than the blatant exaggeration part of it.
spending a 1st round pick on Brett Hundley will be a mistake.
thats all you need to know.
every time you post any sort of opinion, I will be sure to ask "WHY SHOULD I LISTEN TO YOU!?!?"
thats all you need to know.
every time you post any sort of opinion, I will be sure to ask "WHY SHOULD I LISTEN TO YOU!?!?"
One, I have no clue who the Eagles will spend a first round pick on. Zero. However, I will trust them more than you. And yes, I fully understand that teams are wrong and wrong a lot. But I asked you to support your opinion and the best you can come up with it is....
"Brett Hundley will be a mistake. That's all you need to know." --- good analysis. Bro.
But by all means, ask me why should I listen to you? And I'll support my opinion with a reasonable thought or two. Like always....
saying "everyone should be fired" is baseless and dumb. I know you specialize in exaggeration. Got it, again.
The only way that trade adp proposed could possibly happen is if the Jets really liked Foles and were convinced he could be an above-average starter in the league for a long time.
If it was viewed as, "hey, they threw in Foles, he was Pro Bowl MVP two years ago and had great numbers that year in 9 or 10 games, let's give him a shot" they''d get killed for it. If they were willing to go out on a limb and say Foles can be a franchise QB, you do the deal then... but I can't see any NFL personnel guys doing that right now with your job on the line. I wouldn't.
If it was viewed as, "hey, they threw in Foles, he was Pro Bowl MVP two years ago and had great numbers that year in 9 or 10 games, let's give him a shot" they''d get killed for it. If they were willing to go out on a limb and say Foles can be a franchise QB, you do the deal then... but I can't see any NFL personnel guys doing that right now with your job on the line. I wouldn't.
Lowry, that's fair and I'd agree. Sub out Foles and throw a 3rd rounder this year as well. If the Jets don't love Mariota a new coach/GM might want the extra picks. It's the what they do in New England. The point was and remains, by virtue of the stinker in the title game, Mariota went from first pick to now sliding and potentially to six or further. Every slot he falls the likelihood he ends up in Philly increases IF CHIPPER REALLY LIKES HIM. I agree with DMIL and Lowry that it doesn't get done for Foles, a one next year and the 20th pick. You sub out Foles and add in another pick. The Jets have to do that trade especially if they don't love Mariota. First move as a new GM is to flip a questionable 6th pick for the 20th pick, a number one next year and a mid-round pick? Jets have to say yes no?
He didn't have a stinker of a title game. Did you watch it? His team was overrun by a far superior physical team on the LOS. The concerns that some had about him were there before the game was even played. Media guys, not NFL front offices were salivating over him. The NFL guys didn't even have draft boards at this time. Still might not have them. There were scouts saying they preferred Winston all year and immediately prior to the title game. Saying he was the consensus #1 pick was way more fiction than fact in the eyes of the NFL people prior to this game.
its just ridiculous and pompous to post "WHY SHOULD I LISTEN TO YOU?!" on a MESSAGE BOARD. and the fact that you don't understand that just further proves my point.
B$, it's equally as ridiculous to read words on a message board and truly understand how it's coming out without having actually heard them come from someone. Was I breaking your balls a little? Yes. However, my message clearly went over your head.
Why should I listen to you? Meant this.....as an Eagles' fan, if they drafted Hundley with the 20th pick, then why should I go with what you think over what they think? I'm asking you to support your exaggerated initial statement with reasons why. Maybe, I'll but into these thoughts. And if the Eagles do draft Hundley, then I'll have a better feel if it was a good choice or not. Obviously, you have a strong opinion on this player. Tell us why. No one is saying your wrong. I just disagree with the exaggeration of firing everyone.
Relax a little.
Also, suggesting that the entire staff be fired if a particular player is drafted is equally as ridiculous and pompous as anything I said in this thread. Think about it....
I have no clue if Hundley will be a good NFL QB. I have no clue if the Eagles are really interested. The kid seems to have some skills in which to work with. We'll see, though. Would you have said the same thing about Russell Wilson if someone would have taken him
In RD 1 instead of later on? Probably, right?
Why should I listen to you? Meant this.....as an Eagles' fan, if they drafted Hundley with the 20th pick, then why should I go with what you think over what they think? I'm asking you to support your exaggerated initial statement with reasons why. Maybe, I'll but into these thoughts. And if the Eagles do draft Hundley, then I'll have a better feel if it was a good choice or not. Obviously, you have a strong opinion on this player. Tell us why. No one is saying your wrong. I just disagree with the exaggeration of firing everyone.
Relax a little.
Also, suggesting that the entire staff be fired if a particular player is drafted is equally as ridiculous and pompous as anything I said in this thread. Think about it....
I have no clue if Hundley will be a good NFL QB. I have no clue if the Eagles are really interested. The kid seems to have some skills in which to work with. We'll see, though. Would you have said the same thing about Russell Wilson if someone would have taken him
In RD 1 instead of later on? Probably, right?
Burrs, I always enjoy our banter and continue to do so. However, I have noticed a much harsher tone in your posts. I'm not pulling the DMIL condescending, "I'm here to help" routine. Having said that, I have noticed you seem angry and it's been going for a while now. I hope everything is all right and want happy-go-lucky Burrs back.
I didn't move. The kids are great. I adapt well. Never been much of a worrier. I just deal with things.
I re-read my post. Not angry at all. I don't think it's out of line to ask another poster why I should listen to them. I think you guys are taking it out of context. I was asking him to convince me. Yes, breaking some balls, too. Especially with the fantasy line.
I re-read my post. Not angry at all. I don't think it's out of line to ask another poster why I should listen to them. I think you guys are taking it out of context. I was asking him to convince me. Yes, breaking some balls, too. Especially with the fantasy line.
