Maybe 200. It all depends on if ADP wants to continue to talk in absolutes.
Nola called up - splash them keyboards
- Thread starter OldManYellsatCloud
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Maybe 200. It all depends on if ADP wants to continue to talk in absolutes.
Another delay. That place can't even get the lights working. Many fringe Nats' fans have left. Terrible sports town.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I hate to get involved here, I really do, but how do you say that Zimmermann is NOT a #1? Because he's on the same team as Scherzer? Is that the semantics game we're playing? Last 3 years -- 41-19, 3.02 ERA, 1.12 WHIP. Finished 7th in Cy Young voting in 2013 and 5th in 2014.
i think if you scroll back you'll see I said he has not been a #1 throughout his career and that he has shown glimpses, but hasn't been consisted enough.
And the year before, in his only other playoff appearance, he was rocked. What's your point?
Lights out again.
The Nats would drive Desmond to the airport if anyone would take him. Guy cost himself about $80 million this season. I would trade him yesterday. I'm also the same guy who said I wouldn't pay him any money prior to the season. Should have taken the $107 million he turned down.
What i the lunacy here? Specifically? Zimmermann a frontline starter by any estimation. Guy has been top 7 in Cy Young past two seasons. Buy he doesn't pitch in Burrs world so it doesn't count. Just not consistent enough. Nola doesn't project as such. Per usual Burrs by blowing his Philly whatever not based in anything but his own homerism. Sorry I called him on it and it disappointed you guys because you have nothing else to root for at the Bank. I should have known this and given Burrs his 2 minutes of hope. mea culpa
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Zimmermann's ERA the past 4 seasons since TJ surgery: 2.94, 3.25, 2.66, 3.27. 20 games above .500. Yep, not consistent enough. If he played in Philly he'd be in the HoF discussion with Jimmy Rollins. Learn more about baseball and then you and gdog can bring me your weak, 4x4 calf tattoo'ed homerism. Cole Hamels wish he had those numbers and he should command the mother load in return. Zimmermann, who has better numbers, not consistent enough. Th e world according to burrs
The ruBen Amaro of 4.6
The ruBen Amaro of 4.6
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My first post on Nola was calling out silly fans for thinking he's something that he's probably not. It's nice how you conveniently skip over these types of posts.
No one is saying JZ isn't a good pitcher. I just don't view him as that clear top of the rotation guy.,I've stated he's shown flashes of being that. Ok, he'll be 30 at the end of the season and had had a couple really good seasons. What about the rest of the time?
It's not ridiculous to suggest that a kid like Nola when at his peak can have similar type seasons.
And you're also the same guy who guaranteed that some team would give him a bunch of years and a boatload of money to be their SS. Now, unless something drastically changes over final 75 games + postseason, then that has no chance of happening. Which is pretty much the point of this conversation. You speak in absolutes too much. Yet, your telling others to learn baseball.
Agree. Desmond crapped TN e bed like no other. He has a normal year he gets his money. He choked, that is no reflexion on me.
My only ask is apply your se standard to Zimmermann as you do to hamels. TN ey ate essentially similar pitchers. You could make an argument one is better. Zimmermann has been more consistent the past few years. Either way, you made a silly statement because yoy clearly didn't know his numbers well or wta j gim enough. Then you kept digging. No question he's a top starter and has been very consistent. Just own it and move on. Nola might end up being very good, never said he wouldn't. I responded to your statement as to why he's not projected to be a Zimmermann front end type of guy. Thats not speaking in absolutes but a fact as to how he projects. Reading comprehension clearly a struggle. Maybe he gets there but plenty of reasons why he won't and not projected to be th at guy. Good 3, 2 on a bad team.
My only ask is apply your se standard to Zimmermann as you do to hamels. TN ey ate essentially similar pitchers. You could make an argument one is better. Zimmermann has been more consistent the past few years. Either way, you made a silly statement because yoy clearly didn't know his numbers well or wta j gim enough. Then you kept digging. No question he's a top starter and has been very consistent. Just own it and move on. Nola might end up being very good, never said he wouldn't. I responded to your statement as to why he's not projected to be a Zimmermann front end type of guy. Thats not speaking in absolutes but a fact as to how he projects. Reading comprehension clearly a struggle. Maybe he gets there but plenty of reasons why he won't and not projected to be th at guy. Good 3, 2 on a bad team.
Zimmermann has been a clear cut #1/frontline/whatever you want to call it, for years. If burrs has any integrity, he will issue a mea culpa and then we can all move on.
JZ has been more consistent recently than I thought. Ok? But he will be 30 by season's send and overall his career doesn't shout out clear top guy in my mind. One 200+ innings season and he'll be 30. Hamels has done that six times. Part of being a top line guy is being healthy and eating innings. Hamels won a WS MVP. It all counts.
Just because Nola isn't hitting 95-96 doesn't mean he won't be a very good pitcher. Fister could be a #2 on a lot of teams and he doesn't break 88. Greg Maddox was 90-91 for a large chunk of his career. I'm sure he wasn't wowing the scouts early on.
Just don't get why you have to be the first one to tell us all how good someone will be before they even play at the highest level.
And will you give Nola three years to figure it out like JZ?
Just because Nola isn't hitting 95-96 doesn't mean he won't be a very good pitcher. Fister could be a #2 on a lot of teams and he doesn't break 88. Greg Maddox was 90-91 for a large chunk of his career. I'm sure he wasn't wowing the scouts early on.
Just don't get why you have to be the first one to tell us all how good someone will be before they even play at the highest level.
And will you give Nola three years to figure it out like JZ?
You crack me up burrs. The guy hit 195.2 IP and 199.2 IP. You're a clown. Also are you forgetting that he had Tommy John in 2009?
Not forgetting that. Unfortunately that's part of it. Again, he's had good numbers for a few seasons, but he doesn't rub me as that true #1 guy in the mold of a Kershaw, Scherzer, Hernandez, Fernandez, Bumgartner, Wainright, etc.....Feel free to disagree.
Not sure why you're involved here other than your disdain for me.
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Consistently, like the 4 years since Tommy john. This is where you lose all credability
It was a dumb statement because you simply didn't know the facts. Now with the facts presented and being clearly proven wrong, by another Phillie's fan no less, you keep going. The guy has pitched at least 195 innings and had an Era between 2.65-3.27 for 4 straight seasons. But hey, he didn't throw 200 inningz the week after surgery. His numbers are better than hamels over the same stretch. Silly.
It was a dumb statement because you simply didn't know the facts. Now with the facts presented and being clearly proven wrong, by another Phillie's fan no less, you keep going. The guy has pitched at least 195 innings and had an Era between 2.65-3.27 for 4 straight seasons. But hey, he didn't throw 200 inningz the week after surgery. His numbers are better than hamels over the same stretch. Silly.
Again, you skip over the part where I said he's been more consistent in recent years than I thought.
Their numbers are comparable over the last 3+ seasons. Really, splitting hairs there. See, the problem is that you're picking when you want to look at things. Yea, totally ignore Hamels' six years before that. Allow JZ to do it for a few more years then the argument changes.
Again, no one is saying he's not good. He absolutely is. I'd take him on my team. He just doesn't strike me as an elite guy. Maybe, my definition of elite is too ambitious. It's possible.
Again, no one is saying he's not good. He absolutely is. I'd take him on my team. He just doesn't strike me as an elite guy. Maybe, my definition of elite is too ambitious. It's possible.
I admit that JZ has been a bit better than I thought over the last few seasons. I still believe Nola can have similar type seasons at some point during his career. I also don't view JZ has a top flight pitcher for his entire career to date. But yes, he's been pretty good over the last few years. And I knew he was good, but I should of given him a little more credit.
I have no reason to issue a mea culpa on this thread. When I screw up, I say so. I said that there is no way to predict how okafor and Nola would do at the NBA/MLB level, and I challenged adp who is convinced that one is a bust and one maxes out as a back of the rotation guy. I never knew he was a part time NBA and MLB scout. I haven't said a word about Zimmerman. So you won't be getting one from me. I tend to avoid absolutes.
So if we take away the year he got injured, and the year he returned on the inningz limit he's been a Frontline starter. I rest my case and will accept all the culpas. Furthermore, no one with any credibility is projecting a JZ career for Nola as his stuff isn't anywhere like JZ. Exactly what I said in my initial post. Not an avsolute, an accurate statement. Maybe he exceeds his talent and becomes a top end guy, just not the projection.
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And Jacob DeGrom was a 9th RD pick and I believe converted from another position.
Look, I didn't go and look up JZ numbers before making the comment. I just knew he was good and in watching him pitch never thought of him with lights out stuff; like a Fernandez, Kershaw, Harvey, etc when on top of their games. JZ strikes me as a guy who knows how to pitch and has good command. He's a smart pitcher. By all accounts that is what Nola does well. So, that's why I drew the comparison. Is a perfect one? No. But no need to fly off the handle because one of your beloved Nats' players was mentioned. JZ had a year at 2.66 ERA. His next best are 2.97, 3.35, and 3.27. I believe Nola can have years like that after garnering some experience. He's not a soft tosser like you described. Lighten up.
Not issuing a culpa or a gulpa.
Just wondering, is Zimmerman on an innings limit this year? I get confused about all of these nats pitchers that are being saved for the future? Will this be the year that the kids can run the table laps after an actual playoff series win?
Just wondering, is Zimmerman on an innings limit this year? I get confused about all of these nats pitchers that are being saved for the future? Will this be the year that the kids can run the table laps after an actual playoff series win?
You guys understand the difference between why something may not happen, especially something not projected to happen, as opposed to cannot happen? You guys get this right? You can try and change the subject but you guys failed to read and we're wrong. It happens. I screw up all the time. Own your imperfections, it's human.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Exactly. No reason for ADP to act all cunty over a not-so-unreasonable comparison.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
ADP, go take care of business. I'm not going to hold anything against you this week. I know you're a good dude.
Oh yea, Desmond just made error #21.