Porzingis and the "Process"

[Burrs5]

Durant, griffin, paul, davis, and curry were all dominant in college.Simmons will be a good player. However, he might not come to Philly and he's not a lock franchise changer. Lots of upside and I agree you can teach kids to shoot. Kid has a great baseline to improve.

Our definitions of dominated differ.

Yes, Durant had a remarkable RS statistically. He avg'd 26 & 11, made 82 3's, shot 47% from the field, and 82% from the line. However, his team lost 10 games and he dominated so much that they lost in RD of 32.

Griffin and Paul played two years of CBB. Curry played three at a small school. Griffin as a freshman was 15-9, 0-2 from three. Both Paul/Griffin's teams lost double-digit games as freshman.

Davis wasn't even used the way he is now when at Kentucky. They were loaded. Yea, you could see his tremendous talent, but he took 8 shots a game. Was 3-20 from the arc. Look at him now.

Simmons can develop just like these guys because you see his talent at such a young age.

And I get that the Sixers might not get him.

 

[adp98]

Griffin led the nation in scoring and rebounding, Durant was unstoppable, curry was ridiculous, Davis won a title and was incredible; they dominated period. Stop.

 

[Burrs5]

Griffin led the nation in scoring and rebounding, Durant was unstoppable, curry was ridiculous, Davis won a title and was incredible; they dominated period. Stop.

Griffin didn't dominate or lead anything as a freshman. You stop.

Curry had a ton of question marks and doubters entering the NBA after three years of mid-major (tops) CBB. You stop.

Davis was on an unbelievable team and wasn't allowed to take jump stops. You stop.

Durant did dominate, but not enough to carry his team past the 2nd RD. But I'll concede this one.

Every great player, especially 18/19 year olds have their games critiqued. These players went thru this, too. You don't remember because you see them 5 years+ into their NBA career (except Davis).

 

[adp98]

Simmons won't even make the tourney and you are trying to knock Durant. Just silly. Those guys all dominated college and you look silly suggesting otherwise. I forgot how unreasonable you are in your attempt to defend all things CoP sports.

 

[Burrs5]

Simmons won't even make the tourney and you are trying to knock Durant. Just silly. Those guys all dominated college and you look silly suggesting otherwise. I forgot how unreasonable you are in your attempt to defend all things CoP sports.

I'm defending Simmons. Has nothing to do with CoP sports you boob.

TBD if Simmons doesn't make tourney.

Dude, you do understand that when you play more than one year in college the chances of doing better is greater? That registers, right?

Also, how is 20-13-5 no dominating, if Griffin dominated at 14-9-2 at same age?

By the way, that Kevin Durant Texas team had three other NBA players on it, including another lottery pick.

Again, those guys were critiqued when in CBB, too. You don't remember it. Yes, they were great. Simmons is great, too.

 

[adp98]

The kI'd should be able to get his team to the tourney in a watered down ncaa. He's a really good player but I'm not clearing space in Springfield yet. LSU also has talent beyond simmons.

 

[Burrs5]

No one has him in Sprongfield yet. No one uttered anything like that. With that said, there is a ton to like about this kid and he's not even close to a finished product yet. Perspective. Find some.

 

[adp98]

Reminds me of Lamar oden at the same stage. This kid is a little better athlete.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

simmons is a much better prospect than wiggins. so is ingram. simmons is quicker and more athletic than odom--and odom was a hell of a player

duncan's teams never got very far in the tournament. using collegiate team performance to discredit a prospect seems unwise

as burrs said, durant went home the first weekend, and davis was 5th or 6th on uk in fga

6/4/4 with 3 steals and 0 turns for mcconnell last night. hink offered him a partial guarantee back in july. guy definitely has a knack for seeing nba potential in players

 

[Burrs5]

When looking at skill set not a bad comparison. I think Simmons is better. Also, for as talented as Odom was I don't think he ever reached his full potential. I sense this kid has abetted head on his shoulders.

 

[adp98]

Johnny, how did he blow it so badly on okafor? I agree he really did a good job until that pick. Also agree simmons is better than wiggins. I simply making a point. People had wiggins as a ten time all star before he played half a season of college ball. It's like transfer and highly touted college freshman, they will never be better than their first day of practice. Once you see their warts we start hyping the next can't miss kid coming next year. Regardless, I like simmons. Let's hope he ends up in philly. Ingrahm is good but he's got a long way to go. He'll get beat up.

 

[Burrs5]

ADP, I agree about the hype factor. For me, that's just background noise. Nature of the beast.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

ingram is young for his class. turned 18 in the fall i think. he'll fill out. he's already more active on defense than wiggins was

i don't know what motivated the okafor pick. not sure if he thought he had a deal in place, or that he overrated the ability to draw a double team and legitimately thought okafor had the highest potential value down the road

i don't expect to ever see a healthy joel embiid, but noel is already a center, and okafor just further muddies that picture. zinger is a better player and a better fit. all three of them could coexist on a roster. it's really kind of sad

my brother says this is what i get for not being in love with russell

 

[Burrs5]

JG, due for some luck and good fortune. Keep your fingers crossed. (On Embiid)

If Okafor is here for more than 2 years then I'd be surprised. If he is, then it's a good sign for his development/improvement. If he's gone, then I think he nets something significant. Win-win

 

[nardibynature123]

I'm defending Simmons. Has nothing to do with CoP sports you boob.

TBD if Simmons doesn't make tourney.

Dude, you do understand that when you play more than one year in college the chances of doing better is greater? That registers, right?

Also, how is 20-13-5 no dominating, if Griffin dominated at 14-9-2 at same age?

By the way, that Kevin Durant Texas team had three other NBA players on it, including another lottery pick.

Again, those guys were critiqued when in CBB, too. You don't remember it. Yes, they were great. Simmons is great, too.

You can't knock guys for having other good guys on their team. From what I am seeing Simmons is 3-4 years away from being a big time player in the NBA. Will he? Probably.

 

[Burrs5]

I'm not knocking Durant. I think he's terrific. Then and now. Just saying not everyone's circumstances are the same. A lot of factors involved for a team's success or lack of.

 

[NickleDimer]

I'm not knocking Durant. I think he's terrific. Then and now. Just saying not everyone's circumstances are the same. A lot of factors involved for a team's success or lack of.

This sounds like Donald Trump said it.

 

[Burrs5]

the knicks right now have a 50/50 chance of winning a game ( according to their record )....the 6ers have a chance to win every time the other team doesn't come to the arena.....
Relevant---- legit shot at playoffs
And just watched the end of Okla-LSU and Dickie V said that Simmons needs to get that fire in his belly ........

Update:
The Knicks don't have a 50/50 chance to win. Losers of 9 of 10 and 23-31 on the season says they have a 43% chance of winning. Five games our of a playoff spot really not a legit shot at this point, so not relevant again. Melo leaking oil. It's not getting any better for him in the years to come.

The Sixers still don't have a chance to win all that much. That's a good thing. Need to get those ping-pong balls. Hopefully, a big summer of moves/acquistions to come.

 

[bgranc02]

And now fisher fired.

 

[gldendog]

Knicks are LOADED with young talent tho. This board tells me.

 

[nardibynature123]

Huh?

 

[NickleDimer]

What's so awful about the Knicks situation 35-40m tied up with Melon and Lopez and a solid young Zinger. When the cap hits $100m+ next year, they an make some moves? It's a desirable place for free agents/waiving no-trade clauses.

The Sixers have nothing going for them right now. Just some clumsy young guys with very incomplete games and injury or attitude histories.

 

[nardibynature123]

What's so awful about the Knicks situation 35-40m tied up with Melon and Lopez and a solid young Zinger. When the cap hits $100m+ next year, they an make some moves? It's a desirable place for free agents/waiving no-trade clauses.

The Sixers have nothing going for them right now. Just some clumsy young guys with very incomplete games and injury or attitude histories.

Yawn!!!!!!

 

[Burrs5]

It won't be desirable until Melo is gone. No one of consequence will go there. Also, why hasn't it been desirable for the last 15 years?

The Sixers haven't even tried to win over last 4 years. Meanwhile, the Knicks acquired Melo and they still haven't won more playoff games over the last 12 years.

Lastly, some believe that Jackson just brings on one of his boys to be the next coach. Someone he can force his triangle offense on.

 

[NickleDimer]

Wasn't Fisher one of his boys?
Weren't Amare and Melo high profile guys that chose NY?

 

[Burrs5]

Wasn't Fisher one of his boys?
Weren't Amare and Melo high profile guys that chose NY?

Yes. And we see how that worked out.

They went to Knicks via trades.

 

[NickleDimer]

Amare signed with the Knicks. Carmelo refused an extension with the nuggets and held them hostage until they traded him to the Knicks with the condition that he sign an extension.

 

[Burrs5]

Amare resigned with Knicks after he was traded there. Shocker, he took most money. Terrible signing, too. Melo was still traded there.

All I'm saying is that the belief that the Knicks is some sort destination haven for marquee FAs really isn't true. Look at the last 15 years. Can that change? Yes. But to depict it like it's a forgone conclusion just isn't accurate based on prior/recent history.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Amare signed with the Knicks. Carmelo refused an extension with the nuggets and held them hostage until they traded him to the Knicks with the condition that he sign an extension.

I would say that at this point, NBA stars don't get traded unless the player (and the league) agree on the destination. I think it is fair to say that if melo or amare didn't want to be traded to the knicks, they would not have been traded to the knicks.

 

[adp98]

Amare was not traded to new york. He was their third choice in fa after LeBron and all the big fish went elsewhere. For a guy who is supposed to know everything how do you forget how this played out? Per the codbers, the Knicks were going to sign everyone and no one would event take a meeting. Amare was the fallback and everyone knew it was an awful, panic signing. He had one great year and then his knees gave out as everyone knew they would.

 

[NickleDimer]

Do high taxes in NY impact free agent signings there?

 

[adp98]

Do high taxes in NY impact free agent signings there?

That's why they all went to Florida and Texas while avoiding California and NY, no state tax!

 

[NickleDimer]

That's why they all went to Florida and Texas while avoiding California and NY, no state tax!

I've always been surprised that leagues don't adjust for that. It's seems like a big competitive disadvantage for teams in high tax areas.

 

[NorCalVU10]

Since the bulls, NBA championships:

Cali (4 teams)- 6
TX/FL (5 teams)- 11

Other - MA, MI

 

[adp98]

I've always been surprised that leagues don't adjust for that. It's seems like a big competitive disadvantage for teams in high tax areas.

Why, it's like any other profession. Some areas are more attractive for many reasons, taxes (suck it dmil) being one. Suprised you acknowledged it's a factor. You just might be a Republican.

 

[Burrs5]

Amare was not traded to new york. He was their third choice in fa after LeBron and all the big fish went elsewhere. For a guy who is supposed to know everything how do you forget how this played out? Per the codbers, the Knicks were going to sign everyone and no one would event take a meeting. Amare was the fallback and everyone knew it was an awful, panic signing. He had one great year and then his knees gave out as everyone knew they would.

Because I went by this on the best basketball website out there...

July 8, 2010: Traded by the Phoenix Suns to the New York Knicks for a 2012 2nd round draft pick. Phoenix also received a trade exception from New York. Phoenix did not receive the 2nd round draft pick because it was top 55 protected.

If this is inaccurate or wrong, or other factors were involved in the transaction, then I apologize. No, I don't remember every piece of crap that happened 6 years ago.

 

[adp98]

That site is wrong. He signed a 5 year 100 million fa deal.

 

[adp98]

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5356502

Here is the article. If you recall this was to woo Lebron but we found out later Lebron wouldn't even meet with the Knicks. They were supposed to go after Bosh and Wade but we all found out later their deal was already cut in Miami. They dumped a second rounder to clear space.

 

[NickleDimer]

The 6-foot-10 Stoudemire officially comes to New York via a sign-and-trade. The Knicks sent a trade exception and possibly a draft pick to the Suns while Stoudemire signed a five-year deal worth approximately $100 million. The exception is believed to be worth about $16.5 million and the draft pick likely will be a second-rounder sent to Phoenix.

Knicks president of basketball operations Donnie Walsh said the Knicks did the sign-and-trade as a courtesy to Stoudemire, who didn't want to leave Phoenix with nothing.

 

[adp98]

The 6-foot-10 Stoudemire officially comes to New York via a sign-and-trade. The Knicks sent a trade exception and possibly a draft pick to the Suns while Stoudemire signed a five-year deal worth approximately $100 million. The exception is believed to be worth about $16.5 million and the draft pick likely will be a second-rounder sent to Phoenix.

Knicks president of basketball operations Donnie Walsh said the Knicks did the sign-and-trade as a courtesy to Stoudemire, who didn't want to leave Phoenix with nothing.

Yes, officially a sign and trade on the back end because the Knicks dumped the pick to clear space to sign other FA's. If you read the article on ESPN it says, signed free agent Amare. It was an after the fact trade. The guy was a FA and the Suns simply took the pick because the Knicks wanted to dump it.