Putin rubbing Obama's nose in it again
- Thread starter adp98
- Start date
Putin will not eradicate ISIS...which I think you edited to note spg?
Also lets not forget the role Assad played in helping ISIS get its footing. 1) Saddam was no dummy and knew he was going to lose so started to importing the Islamists through Syria. 2) The Iraqi insurgency "cent com" was essentially Damascus. The different factions Saddam's guys were coordinating eventually grew into ISIS. They hated the Baath boys but needed them at first before becoming what they are now.
My ISIS solution is to figure out a way to draw in the Jordanians, Turks and Sauds. They need to be the ones to clear Syria if we want to see something close to the elimination of ISIS. How does that happen... well if ISIS were to kill the wrong muslim or go off the rails with some sort of bombing in Mecca, I think they may have no choice.
Also lets not forget the role Assad played in helping ISIS get its footing. 1) Saddam was no dummy and knew he was going to lose so started to importing the Islamists through Syria. 2) The Iraqi insurgency "cent com" was essentially Damascus. The different factions Saddam's guys were coordinating eventually grew into ISIS. They hated the Baath boys but needed them at first before becoming what they are now.
My ISIS solution is to figure out a way to draw in the Jordanians, Turks and Sauds. They need to be the ones to clear Syria if we want to see something close to the elimination of ISIS. How does that happen... well if ISIS were to kill the wrong muslim or go off the rails with some sort of bombing in Mecca, I think they may have no choice.
The Russian economy is a nightmare. Two things here - 1) He wants to use nationalism and his military to distract Russians. 2) All along, their goal has been to protect their seaport at Tarsus. It's where their nuclear subs operate out of.
Bgrand,
Please tell us what role Turkey, Saudi Saudi Arabi & Qatar play inside war in Syria & growth of ISIS?
Re-read your post about Jordan, Kingdom of Saud & Turkey magically "cleaning" up Syria. Holy cow you don't know what you are talking about & who feeds Sunnish nut jobs. Blaming it all on Assad is incorrect & straight out of US talking points (cover story)
Please tell us what role Turkey, Saudi Saudi Arabi & Qatar play inside war in Syria & growth of ISIS?
Re-read your post about Jordan, Kingdom of Saud & Turkey magically "cleaning" up Syria. Holy cow you don't know what you are talking about & who feeds Sunnish nut jobs. Blaming it all on Assad is incorrect & straight out of US talking points (cover story)
Did I blame it all on Assad??? and what magic?
When Saddam’s leadership left Iraq they set-up shop in Damascus and ran the insurgency from there… primarily al-Douri. Did this not happen? You had three key components:
1) The Ex-Baath dudes (Saddam’s boys); 2) A hodge-podge of extremist groups (both Sunni and Shia); 3)The Al Qaeda in Iraq folks.
How did all those Islamists get into Iraq again? And yes they hated the Baaths but needed them to get aorund Iraq first and thus a mutually symbiotic relationship was born. This was all coordinated from Syria.
AQI became the largest and most powerful group gobbling up some of the smaller extremists groups and eventually all three of these factions in essence became one over the course of say 2007 to 2011 and that was the ISI. Some of the former Baath dudes that gave up the fight because of some of that aforementioned hatred between them. Then the JABN guy was having a ton of success in Syria got Baghdadi fired up and he began their Syrian operations and thus became ISIL/ISIS and with that prominence split from AQ proper in name, though in ideology they are still sympatico.
So you believe putin is going to clean syria?
First of all Paul Bremer under Bush admin dismissed Iraqi Army. You want to talk about growth of ISIS you start there
Secondly ISiS current leaders met up in US prisons inside Iraq. Camp BUCCA I believe. (Al-baghdadi)
Thirdly you need to understand how long House of Saud, Turkey, Qatar & Jordan have been pumping in armed Islamists inside Syria.
You have part of the picture down, but main ingredients are above.
Secondly ISiS current leaders met up in US prisons inside Iraq. Camp BUCCA I believe. (Al-baghdadi)
Thirdly you need to understand how long House of Saud, Turkey, Qatar & Jordan have been pumping in armed Islamists inside Syria.
You have part of the picture down, but main ingredients are above.
Actually ISIS staged the attack in order to rally support against the Russians. Haven't you heard of superthermite ?
I absolutely believe Russia is going to do the best they can to clean up Islamists nuts inside Syria & keep Assad in power whose family has been fighting Islamist nuts for 3 decades.
Key is if America puts real pressure on Sauds, Turks & Qatar & our own CIA to stop funding the proxy nuts.
(There are also thousands of Chechan Islamists nuts inside Syria who also fight Russia from time to time.)
Key is if America puts real pressure on Sauds, Turks & Qatar & our own CIA to stop funding the proxy nuts.
(There are also thousands of Chechan Islamists nuts inside Syria who also fight Russia from time to time.)
On your first point im on board its why i think the 2003 invasion is the single biggest foreign policy mistake in our history (certainly on our Mt Rushmore of f-ups). We are still paying for that decision today. Leaders and presidents from both parties can/have/will exacerbate the impact of that blunder, but make no mistake of it being the root cause for much of what we currently face.
And I understand the role of those players in fueling and funding many of the islamists which is why i said there needs to be an event that forces their hand. Something indefensible from ISIS that would spark in essence a Pan-Arab war and stop them from playing both sides as they have always done. Maybe I have been hanging out with CC Sabbathia too much but i think its possible
Not saying this is a good read in the traditional sense but for a technical book on ISIS you wont find anything better. Terrorists of Iraq
And I understand the role of those players in fueling and funding many of the islamists which is why i said there needs to be an event that forces their hand. Something indefensible from ISIS that would spark in essence a Pan-Arab war and stop them from playing both sides as they have always done. Maybe I have been hanging out with CC Sabbathia too much but i think its possible
Not saying this is a good read in the traditional sense but for a technical book on ISIS you wont find anything better. Terrorists of Iraq
Good post bgran.
There is rumors that China has aircraft carrier near Syria & will soon join in bombing of ISIS from ship ( there's also now Chinese Muslims inside Syria)
Civil war? That was a lie often repeated from
western media
If that happens maybe America will
Be forced to move away from
Neo con strategy of getting rid of Assad & doing a ME reset.
One thing I detest about Obama supporters is how unaware they are of his admins foreign policy regime change.
Egypt, Libya & Syria.
There is rumors that China has aircraft carrier near Syria & will soon join in bombing of ISIS from ship ( there's also now Chinese Muslims inside Syria)
Civil war? That was a lie often repeated from
western media
If that happens maybe America will
Be forced to move away from
Neo con strategy of getting rid of Assad & doing a ME reset.
One thing I detest about Obama supporters is how unaware they are of his admins foreign policy regime change.
Egypt, Libya & Syria.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Not saying it helped, but it has gotten to the point that the Iraq invasion is ludicrously overemphasized as an excuse for why the Middle East is a flaming $hit hole. People need to put down the Democratic and Euro anti-U.S. talking points and Bush hate and move on. People really think after 9/11 if we just stayed out of Iraq -- or "only" went into Afghanistan which has also been a $hit show and failed to endear us to people -- everything would be fine? Reading some of this stuff you'd think the trade towers coming down was in response to our invading Iraq.
Saddam was not going to stay in power forever anyway. Radical Islam would not leave that region in peace (or infidels anywhere, as we've found out) no matter what we did.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
A general rule of life: fewer sh*tshows is better than more sh*tshows.
Plenty of things already discussed in this very thread helped shape the middle east, colonialism, establishment of Israel, shah/Iran, Afghanistan 1.0, no one denies that. I certainly don't.... but you really cant overemphasize the 2003 invasion's impact on current state. That is not a partisan way of looking at things or a talking point. The middle east was a mess before, a powder keg. Sure the powder keg was dangerous and maybe it would have gone off on its own, but instead we lit the fking thing ourselves.
Hopefully we have come to learn some of the unintended consequences of "Shock and Awe"......but I seriously doubt it otherwise we wouldn't be spending nearly 20% of our federal budget on defense.