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Roll The Tanks Back Out

I think that the rags to riches through tanking narrative is unrealistic. You're more likely to incrementally improve to a contender.

In the end you may be proven right, but the best way to get better without having a marquee player in place is thru the draft.

If you despise their methods so much then just detach yourself from the team. It's beyond me why you put so much energy into talking about it.
 
As a Warrioits fan surely you recognized that they built the core of their team thru the draft. And prior to the last 3-4 years they missed the playoffs in 18 of 19 seasons.
 
Good news is we have another number in 2018. Hopefully we shoot for the moon or pick a guy who should be ready by 2022. Hinkie keeps cashing those checks. Brilliant plan.
 
Good news is we have another number in 2018. Hopefully we shoot for the moon or pick a guy who should be ready by 2022. Hinkie keeps cashing those checks. Brilliant plan.

Cmon bro. You probably watch two Sixers' games a year. You really don't care that much and certainly aren't invested enough to use "we".
 
Cmon bro. You probably watch two Sixers' games a year. You really don't care that much and certainly aren't invested enough to use "we".

Burrs' rules of fandom strike again.

You can't say "we" till the kids run around the house for the team.
 
Burrs' rules of fandom strike again.

You can't say "we" till the kids run around the house for the team.

Actually, the "we" shouldn't never be used. However, if you're someone who has invested much time supporting a team then I guess it's ok. Personally, I try to stay away from it.
 
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For everyone who is against the Embiid pick, who should they have taken? If you're against it now you were against it then right? So who was your pick? I love the guys who were pissed they didn't take McDermott with the 2nd first rounder btw. He's Luke Harangody part 2.
 
You take Embiid and hope for the best. It didn't work out and you knew there was a huge risk when you made the pick. Factor in you had two lottery picks and the other guy is playing in another continent not much to show yet from those two lottery picks. However, who cares, Sixers have 4 first rounders next year.
 
You take Embiid and hope for the best. It didn't work out and you knew there was a huge risk when you made the pick. Factor in you had two lottery picks and the other guy is playing in another continent not much to show yet from those two lottery picks. However, who cares, Sixers have 4 first rounders next year.

Actually, I agree that not seeing either player from the '14 draft on the floor yet is extremely frustrating and a fair criticism.

I don't mind the closing every year if you're adding high picks and they are on the court developing. That hasn't been the case with that draft.

Also, no guarantee they'll end up with 4 picks next year. I distinctly remember people counting those picks last year and we saw what happened. With that said, there is a better chance for most of them to convey this year, but you never know how injuries will go.

I just saw this guy on Twitter (A Comcast anchor) say that if Embiid was on any other team he would of played by now. He based this on him not having any pain and never having pain along the way. Not sure if that's believable. Didn't Embiid get the first surgery before the draft?
 
So the Sixers are being super extra cautious here? Is it ultimately the players decision? Can't Embiid tell them he's fine and refuse to have the surgery? Can't he issue a play me or trade me ultimatum?
 
So the Sixers are being super extra cautious here? Is it ultimately the players decision? Can't Embiid tell them he's fine and refuse to have the surgery? Can't he issue a play me or trade me ultimatum?

Again, I've heard one guy suggest this and he basically just said it was his opinion. So, not sure it's even a realistic opinion.

Over the last month I routinely heard the Sixers say they are consulting numerous doctors, as well as Embiid and his representation on what the next move will be. It sounds like it was group decision, but who the hell really knows?

I would think that if the doctors/Sixers didn't convince Embiid and his representation on the surgery, then he would be playing.
 
This guy should opt to play just to show he can. At this point, his career is already 3/4 of the way in the dumper anyway so why not? I'd risk it if I were pain free.
 
More than a couple doctors believe Embiid is fine to play with the foot the way it is. He apparently hasn't had any pain in 6 months. Hopefully. Hopefully this is really just them being super cautious so they can tank it up another year and this bone graft they are choosing to do will strengthen the bone to the point where he won't reinjure it. Who knows really. I'm not expecting much but it's not hopeless.
 
This guy should opt to play just to show he can. At this point, his career is already 3/4 of the way in the dumper anyway so why not? I'd risk it if I were pain free.

How is his career 75% in the dumper already? He's not even old enough to drink yet and has only been playing basketball period for a few yrs.
 
They need to have a press conference with the doctors on hand. At least some of them. There are many questions that need to be asked and answered. Specifically, if he feels no pain then what is the issue? Is it just a matter of time before another break occurs without this second procedure?

I read today that this bone graft procedure should have been done the first time and is usually successful.
 
Obv the issue with the bone isn't today. He could probably play on it and play for a while on it but they feel the current structure of the bone would be susceptible to a re-fracture at some point.
 
I'm not expecting much but it's not hopeless.

I agree. I do t think it's hopeless either. That big goof that played for the Cavs had three surgeries, with last one being the bone graft and he then played a decade without any complications. No body is the same, so really don't know.

Still, for the time being I'm counting him out. I can do the on-the-shelf recovering bit for one year, but after that I have to remove most of my positive thoughts. Just playing the percentages with that. But hey, if he eventually makes it back and sustains being on the court then it's gravy in my mind now.
 
Obv the issue with the bone isn't today. He could probably play on it and play for a while on it but they feel the current structure of the bone would be susceptible to a re-fracture at some point.

Yea, I agree. Sort of like a slow leak in one of your tires. You can drive on it for another 100 miles or so, but eventually you'll need to have it fixed.
 
The only minor silver lining in this is we will get to see exactly what we have in Okafor and Noel this season and if he they can co-exist properly as a high level tandem. They'll get all the minutes they can handle.
 
As a Warrioits fan surely you recognized that they built the core of their team thru the draft. And prior to the last 3-4 years they missed the playoffs in 18 of 19 seasons.

Good Warrior lottery picks: Thompson, Barnes, Curry (all not "centers with potential")
Badd Warrior lottery picks: O'Bryant, Udoh, Randolph, Diogu (all "centers with potential")

They won by drafting flexible shooters and surrounding them with replacable stiffs in the middle like Festus Ezeli, Lee, Speights, Bogut. Add in some crafty veterans like Livingston and Barbosa. And a miracle 2nd round grinder in Green.

This seems to be opposite of the Hinkie model. I'm sure you'll say some boiler plate hinkie apologist BS like:
- The Warriors always drafted the best player available, like Hinkie
- Steph Curry's navicular bone was sore one time, like Embiid
- It's too soon to tell if Ike Diogu is the next Hakeem
- They never drafter higher than #6 because Hinkie always swindled them out of their higher picks
- Hinkie would have drafted Draymond Green but he wouldn't have accepted his manipulative 2nd round pick contract
 
Actually, what I'll say is that the Warrioirs had a lot of lottery picks over the last decade and they finally hit on some of them. The more you have the better the chance of hitting on one of them.

And other than O'Bryant none of those guys were centers.

Oh yea, the second half of your post was dumb and not funny. More redundancy.
 
This stiff was hurt in college a few times. Hell he didn't even start against us when we played them. Con job from day one. This was the most obvious bad pick. Said it then, true now.
 
1. A tjc-esque goalpost shifting
2. Let's not split hairs here. All were PF/C.

Not really. Part of the plan had always been to increase the chances of landing a franchise player. GS sucked a ton and finally found Curry and a notch below Thompson.

You said centers. Regardless, Noel, Okafor, and Embiid (If he ever plays) will be light years better than those clowns.
 
Not really. Part of the plan had always been to increase the chances of landing a franchise player. GS sucked a ton and finally found Curry and a notch below Thompson.

You said centers. Regardless, Noel, Okafor, and Embiid (If he ever plays) will be light years better than those clowns.

1. They werent tanking, though. They were paying some veterans to compete, they just ended up sucking.

2. It's too early to tell. The first two years of Ike Diogu's rookie contract returned infinitely more production than Embiid's.
 
I'm not a fan of the conspiracies that Embiid actually could play but they're being extra cautious. I can't imagine a young kid who came from Cameroon and probably has a lot of people back home relying on his career blossoming just giving into what some front office people think. He probably does feel pain but won't admit because he doesn't want it to be real.

The thing with Embiid is that when he was 16 he was about 150 pounds. The pictures of him are eye popping. He put on around 100 pounds in just a few years - running, jumping, and cutting at an elite level. In my mind that means the injury was a result of too rapid development. Unfortunately, it's a bone and I don't think it can be reversed if a year didn't do it.

I look at a guy like Shaun Livingston though, who couldn't contribute to any team the first 4 years of his career due to injuries - but kept working hard and patiently and now is a very solid all around player - and think that maybe down the line Embiid will be one of the best 20 minutes a night bench big men we've ever seen. Just probably won't happen with the Sixers cause Hinkie treats players like commodity trading.

As much as I think Hinkie is a robot, Brett Brown seems like one of the best communicators in the league. I've never seen a happier 18 win team. Hope he can keep Joel's spirits up
 
ND, the Curry and Thompson picks were miracles. Credit to them for making them, but if either of those two guys are taken one slot earlier the Warriors don't win the championship. All Stars are more common at the top, that's just a fact. And in 2011, Curry's ankles were a train wreck and people were wondering if he would ever be able to stay healthy. I'm not comparing him to Embiid, but this whole Warriors team was an absolutely perfect matter if chance. If Curry was this good right away, they never would have been low enough to draft Barnes or Thompson. There are hundreds of possibilities. The bottom line is they ended up with a top 10 NBA player (Curry) and then started building around him. I'm sick of waiting for it too - but until you get that guy you aren't a contender. And the Warriors didn't know they had him until 4.5 years after he was drafted.
 
Thompson was the 11th pick in the draft, Curry was the 7th and Green was the 35. You guys act like you can only get players in the top 3 picks. The Sixers have had the third pick 2 years in a row and won't end up with one player as good as the 3 mentioned in this post. They were all also 4 year guys. Something the Sixers don't go after because they chase every shiny object projected somewhere at a later for a future consideration.
 
Thompson was the 11th pick in the draft, Curry was the 7th and Green was the 35. You guys act like you can only get players in the top 3 picks. The Sixers have had the third pick 2 years in a row and won't end up with one player as good as the 3 mentioned in this post. They were all also 4 year guys. Something the Sixers don't go after because they chase every shiny object projected somewhere at a later for a future consideration.

Curry played three years.

It's widely known that the higher you pick then the better the chance you have of finding that franchise player. A lot of this is based on having some luck. Something GS had a lot of recently.

Wait. You told us this past year that late lottery picks and other first round picks are long shots. Now, you're saying you don't need a top 3 pick to find players. Which one is it?

There are three ways to build a team in the NBA. The draft, trades, and FAs. Until a foundation is built the latter two really aren't viable options. So, in the mean time Hinkie is acquiring as many picks as possible to increase their odds.
 
Didn't Curry sprain his ankle like a dozen times a few years ago? Then have to surgery that was potentially career threatening - to basically take off and re-attach ligaments right? And then the next season he kept spraining it again and again and again. He came back alright didn't he?

Flat out, it is way too early to predict what will happen. Would it be great if Embiid played this season? Sure. But not every draft pick works out. Hinkie and Harris know this and run the team like a business. As a business owner, you want to maximize your investments and assets. Draft pick accumulation is an excellent way to do that. Not every investment works out but the more investments you have, if made with correct decision making, the better chances of short and long term success you have.

I'm already pretty happy with the development of adding talent to the team with the addition of Okafor, Holmes, Stauskas, and bringing back Jackson. Keeping vets like Thompson and Landry, even until the trade deadline, shows Hinkie and Brown want vets on the team to not only teach the young guys but actually play and help them win games. Tanking is adding scrubs every other week like they did last year. They're not doing that this season. So technically the tank is over. They might not win a ton of games but they want their young guys to grow as players and as a team.
 
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It is amazing to me how you guys cannot just admit something isn't working or hasn't worked yet. You act like these drafts didn't happen. Let's try this again slowly: the Sixers have tried to lose as many games as possible in order to achieve the best possible draft position. They have sold a bill of goods that has never been proven, that the only possible way to win in the NBA is to try and lose games. In this quest, they lost games for two straight seasons. This was supposed to provide the building blocks that would change the culture and go towards building something. They acquired two lottery picks last season, a top pick this year and multiple 2nd rounds as well as cap space. This was to wheel and deal to remake the team. After our third draft, the only thing the Sixers have to show for all this losing is Noel. Note, it cost them a quality player in Holiday so it's not without cost. Despite the hard and fast evidence/roster, you guys want to act like these last 2 years and 3 drafts didn't happen. Excuse after excuse. They got Embiid, who is projecting as a nothing. Saric, who hasn't played one minute of NBA ball and none of us know what he is at the NBA level, Okafor who slipped once the NBA scouts realized he cannot run the floor, cannot defend and cannot shot, and another top 10 pick who looks like half the other top 10 picks that flame out. Teams can absolutely build through the draft. However, you guys have some how equated building through the draft as tanking to only get high picks. The point from Golden State is that you don't need to do tank in order to build through the draft. You simply need to draft well at your given picks. Which is my point. The Warriors at 7, 11 and 35 got better players than the Sixers were able to get despite trying to lose all in order to draft better players. Now here is the real kicker. They actually developed those players because they drafted older guys who were more ready to play and surrounded them with structure. The Sixers got unlucky in the draft. However, when your strategy is partly based on getting lucky and it doesn't happen, you guys want to divorce that from the strategy. However, you cannot do so. The GM has to be accountable because that's a key element in his plan and why they keep hording all these picks. They are simply playing the percentages which demonstrates a lack of confidence in your ability to do it the other way a la Golden State, nail your picks and try to build something without sacrificing 3 years to do it. The Sixers are tanking for the third consecutive year and you guys all want to sit around and act like this was the plan all along. No, this was the year they were supposed to be competitive and have multiple pieces playing in the NBA. It hasn't happened. Why are we trying to argue otherwise. We can all look at the roster and see they are in a similar spot today as they were 3 years ago. They have one good young player a bunch of picks and "what if's". And please don't point to all these picks as being players who win games. Until those picks are actual players who help win games the only thing they represent is another paycheck for the GM who keeps kicking the can a year down the road each offseason.
 
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It is amazing to me how you guys cannot just admit something isn't working or hasn't worked yet.

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The Sixers Apologist Squad is trying to equate the Warriors success with what they're doing now. According to them, all successful teams did it the Hinkie way. Pay no mind to the team that just won the title without a big man worth a damn or a top 6 pick for a decade.
 
It took years for GS to nail a couple of picks. Stop acting like they had a couple of chances and made the best of them. Again, before this last 4 years they missed the playoffs in 18 of 19 seasons. There's a lot of failed drafting in those years.

Where I do agree with you is in the you can't divorce the unlucky part of it.

However, it's only been two seasons. These things take time.
 
Oh I can admit it hasn't worked yet. In fact, how many times do I have to say that in the end we'll all be able to see if this plan was successful or not. It will be clear as day. I'm just willing to let play out. And I based that off of no other plan working since 01.
 
No, it took new management/ownership in Golden State. Before that they were one of those teams that got lottery picks each year and still stunk. Ring a bell?
 
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The Sixers Apologist Squad is trying to equate the Warriors success with what they're doing now. According to them, all successful teams did it the Hinkie way. Pay no mind to the team that just won the title without a big man worth a damn or a top 6 pick for a decade.

Whoever said all successful teams did it the Hinkie way? You just make shit up.

The Warriors sucked forever and finally hit on some lottery picks. Yea, it was there time to experience a little good fortune in that regard.

And Bogut was absolutely a key part of their team throughout the RS and most of the playoffs. He anchored their defense which efficiently wise was one of the better ones in the league. Don't confuse going small to take down a depleted Cavs team as not having a significant big man for a large part of the season.
 
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