Yeah I know. I'll probably stick to just trying to make as much money as I can though. Who wants to bond with a 13 year old any way
Saving for kids' college?
- Thread starter Fat Wanker
- Start date
Yeah I know. I'll probably stick to just trying to make as much money as I can though. Who wants to bond with a 13 year old any way
Solid effort, despite djmill going off the rails. Tomorrow I'm stuck in meetings and then in a 3 day Member-Guest. Won't be able to continue but will be sure to find djmill's next fraud lawyer at the club. I will make sure he drives the manly porshe. Our boy will need the best.
If adp and Dmil ever came to blows, not sure who to root for. Think I'd just hope they simultaneously killed each other by suffocating one another with their massive sense of self importance.
That one could be beyond the pale, even for this sorry assed newsgroup.
It's a judgment call that could go either way, but I'm throwin the flag.
He went to.prison and speaks openly of cheating on financial aid. This guy has no bounds. Sending your kids away, nope. Christmas presents for the family, not sacred. There is no moral compass with djmill. Ends always justify the means. Why he went to jail.
That one could be beyond the pale, even for this sorry assed newsgroup.
It's a judgment call that could go either way, but I'm throwin the flag.
Self administered BB2N.
RimJobbLarry already ruled on this matter.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Well we know Christmas presents aren't sacred. Didn't he break into his nephews house and steal them all as a "prank"?
Sicko.
Do we have the full DMill jail story yet? Or is it going to be forever embedded into message board lore like the boogergate scandal and the winged calathes?
ADP from what you've gathered what was more depraved - hazing rituals for Pike or the initiation ceremony at whatever golf club DC's elite play at?
I took you off ignore yesterday to see if things had changed. Clearly they haven't. You're still old and boring. Back on ignore.
Hard to imagine a world where, every time you wanted to buy something, you had to show the merchant all of your bank records before he told you the cost.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
So are you saying that this is democrats discriminating against the wealthy?
No, it's just price-fixing on another level. I work on antitrust litigation all day, companies are effing over people and getting away with it. No difference to me.
I agree with the Millers here. The institutional game is rigged. You cant be blamed for playing it right back.
Like Denzel in Training Day, "The man worked the system, he deserves his freedom."
Like Denzel in Training Day, "The man worked the system, he deserves his freedom."
It's extremely obvious to me that it's unjust for people to pay different prices for the same product based on their finances.
There would be an uproar if poor people only had to pay 10 cents on the dollar for groceries and bulge bracketers have to pay 10 dollars on the dollar for the same groceries.
There would be an uproar if poor people only had to pay 10 cents on the dollar for groceries and bulge bracketers have to pay 10 dollars on the dollar for the same groceries.
That's intersting, yet we believe in a progressive tax code. What is the difference? Curious to hear the amswers.
The analogy to buying groceries is a pretty poor one. Colleges care about who their students are: it impacts their prestige, which impacts their financial health. As dmill points out, if your numbers are awesome a mediocre school will throw discounts at you regardless of need, so people are paying different amount for reasons other than need. Oh, and need based tuition support is not a bad form of institutional charity. Whiny upper middle class people upset that lower middle class people pay less for college. What a tragedy!
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Poor people should pay more. They're getting the education AND access to the social network of educated elites. Wealthy people are just getting the classes.
Wow, what a brawl.
Anyway, I did a bit of research. I think you have to be legitimately poor to get financial aid from the government. This is for people of very limited means. It would make no sense to try to be poor so your kids can get financial aid. Contrary to Merc's interpretation, I think the play is more of a shell game. For example is money in an IRA valued differently than 529 funds that have been earmarked for college tuition? My very superficial research suggests that that depends on the particular college and its policies.
It also looks like private colleges expect middle class and upper middle class people to pay 5% to 6% of their net worth on tuition each year of college (obviously capped at full tuition). As a result, Anarchy's scam would probably work. It seems too risky to me, though, to be worth the limited savings.
Anyway, I did a bit of research. I think you have to be legitimately poor to get financial aid from the government. This is for people of very limited means. It would make no sense to try to be poor so your kids can get financial aid. Contrary to Merc's interpretation, I think the play is more of a shell game. For example is money in an IRA valued differently than 529 funds that have been earmarked for college tuition? My very superficial research suggests that that depends on the particular college and its policies.
It also looks like private colleges expect middle class and upper middle class people to pay 5% to 6% of their net worth on tuition each year of college (obviously capped at full tuition). As a result, Anarchy's scam would probably work. It seems too risky to me, though, to be worth the limited savings.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Anarchy's plan might work. Big tuition reduction and they take care of your living expenses while you're in prison. It's a win-win.
One of my favorite movies of all time. Somehow remains underrated. Needs to be placed back in heavy rotation on HBO/Encore channels like Pulp Fiction was for many years, or Lebowski. I break out the DVD occasionally, but still nice to just have it come on at night, especially to fill some of the void prior to NFL and college hoops seasons.
IRA's are not part of any school's equation. They are for all intents off limits. They don't even ask you about them.
This was never a conversation about gov't hand outs. As you point out, you would have to be near inner city single parent poor to get near that kind of assistance. It is very much a dance with colleges with all kinds of buzz words like Merit aid, So and So Grant (they all have their named grants) work study loans, University sponsored assistance - it's fairly endless, but it's all within the confines of each school's personal finances and budget. The gov't is not involved unless you are a) pretty poor and you qualify for a pelle type grant and b) providing you some sort of loan with unique rates and pay schedules. C) at some tax suck state school like Temple. Not what we're talking about, which was obvious to most of us but the not to others.
The idea of distancing your household from some money is not illegal, and an all likelihood not enough. If you make enough to hide that much it shows up your tax returns anyway and they look at that. It would only work if you did for years, and your house made less than about 150k. Many colleges are fairly reasonable. They know the number that is just painful enough for your household yet not impossible to pull off. System does basically punish savers all in all. If you set aside 200K for each kid, they will get every bit of it plus hit your yearly income just for good measure, because they know you can pay a portion of it to them and not be put in the poor house. If you had 200k saved (50/year), you WILL pay full price. (60-70K) for a higher end school (if they get in). You also get evaluated on a yearly basis , so job increases and or job losses do come into play. You could also quit you job and get divorced. That would help bring your number down.
This was never a conversation about gov't hand outs. As you point out, you would have to be near inner city single parent poor to get near that kind of assistance. It is very much a dance with colleges with all kinds of buzz words like Merit aid, So and So Grant (they all have their named grants) work study loans, University sponsored assistance - it's fairly endless, but it's all within the confines of each school's personal finances and budget. The gov't is not involved unless you are a) pretty poor and you qualify for a pelle type grant and b) providing you some sort of loan with unique rates and pay schedules. C) at some tax suck state school like Temple. Not what we're talking about, which was obvious to most of us but the not to others.
The idea of distancing your household from some money is not illegal, and an all likelihood not enough. If you make enough to hide that much it shows up your tax returns anyway and they look at that. It would only work if you did for years, and your house made less than about 150k. Many colleges are fairly reasonable. They know the number that is just painful enough for your household yet not impossible to pull off. System does basically punish savers all in all. If you set aside 200K for each kid, they will get every bit of it plus hit your yearly income just for good measure, because they know you can pay a portion of it to them and not be put in the poor house. If you had 200k saved (50/year), you WILL pay full price. (60-70K) for a higher end school (if they get in). You also get evaluated on a yearly basis , so job increases and or job losses do come into play. You could also quit you job and get divorced. That would help bring your number down.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I've heard that a go-to move for 98%ers is to start by stuffing money in Roth IRAs. You can withdraw the contribution penalty free and it's not reviewed for financial aid purposes. The limits are low, but it's one source of you're a postal worker and expect to be applying for financial aid.
If you're in one of the higher tax brackets, Roth doesn't make sense IMO. I know that's the go-to advice from the Suze Orman types and probably makes sense if you're early 20s in your first job, but I'll take erasing any ordinary income I can (legally of course).
And besides, no guarantee I'm alive to withdraw the IRA money. Give me more after-tax cash in hand now. Also not a given IMO that they don't someday f--- with the years you can start pulling money from IRAs/401ks. $hit is going to start hitting the fan in the next 5 or 10 years on this stuff. Maybe taxes end up much higher later, but maybe this cancels it out, I don't know.
Still, dumbest advice I ever see is people suggesting that they convert their traditional IRA to a Roth and pay taxes on what's in there today. Yikes. I don't trust the government that much, seems crazy unless you're just a couple years from 59 and earning basically no income today.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Right... That's why I said that's a tactic for 98%ers. Though Roth IRA income limits are in the 96-97%er range.
Late on the on topic part of this, but is it really income-driven, or focused just as much on assets? Lots of discussion in this thread saying income, but seemingly meaning both. Guessing it has to be both, especially as more people that are older having kids, will be lots of people who made their bones years ago, shift to possibly a lower income job/freelancing as they get near 60, kids heading to college but sitting on lots of assets, in taxable accounts, houses, etc. but these days those assets probably won't generate the sort of income they would've 10 or 20 years ago.
Sounds like the verdict is they expect you to borrow against whatever you've got, so deem you not worthy of aid even if your income is lower?