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Stanley Cup Finals

tomdudes

tomdudes

VUSports.com Legend
Mar 24, 2004
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A couple thoughts, I am surprised that Tampa was able to win Game 3 last night. I didn't see much of them during the regular season, and I totally under-rated them. With Kane, Hossa, and Toews, I didn't think TB could hang, but Hedman is a flat out superstar.

And as a CoP Flyers fan, I am bummed at how big the talent gap is between them and these two teams. These two teams have also shown me that there is less of a premium on the elite goalie, and now it's all about speed, speed, speed.
 
This is the way Hockey should be played. Its great to watch. Tampa's speed and passing ability is the best I have seen in a long time.

Makes that whole thread about the Rangers choking pretty foolish now.
 
pipermal1 said:
Makes that whole thread about the Rangers choking pretty foolish now.
Click to expand...

You should pay attention a little better. You missed the whole point of that discussion.

Anyway, a choke is a choke.
 
Maybe I don't get your understanding of the word Choke. When the better more talented team wins, to me that is not a choke.
 
Honestly, the only real choke would be if the USWNT doesn't win it all. Did anyone watch them last night, holy sh*t they're good.
 
I was hoping that with a new thread, it wouldn't immediately go back to a rehash of the choke thread. I was actually interested in some thoughts on THIS SERIES. Oh well.
 
Fans hadn't even returned to their seats before Tampa tied it back up at 2. Some resilience there.
 
NovaNation1188 said:
Honestly, the only real choke would be if the USWNT doesn't win it all. Did anyone watch them last night, holy sh*t they're good.
Click to expand...
I watched it, thought they looked like shit for the first 30 minutes of the game. Frankly, they should have been down 3-0 if not for two incredible saves by the Abuser Solo and a fluke goal by Rapinoe. Second half, Australia looked like absolutely gassed.

As far as game 3 last night, giving up that second TB goal right after Chicago scored was the death knell for the blackhawks. You have to love a goal scored BEFORE the last goal gets officially announced by the PA Address man
 
When they scored that quickly, that showed me that TB was not just a bunch of fast skaters.
 
If Tampa doesn't win this, given their talent and speed, I would classify it as a choke at this point. Clearly the best team in the NHL this year.
 
TB is a good team obviously. They can play and beat you in a number of ways, so it makes dictating any one plan difficult. They are still weak on D 3-6, but they have done a helluva job not having that exposed too badly. They have contained whatever damages they suffer well. It helps that Hedman is playing at a superman level right now while putting up Ryan Suter minutes. He's been the best player on the ice in the games I've watched. Didnt see much of game 1 but feels like with two late goals Chi is fortunate to not be down 3-0. That was a near perfect road game TB played last night.
 
pipermal1 said:
Maybe I don't get your understanding of the word Choke. When the better more talented team wins, to me that is not a choke.
Click to expand...

Thru 82 games they were not better. Plus, I believe the NYR hosted game 7. Didn't score a goal....

Dude, seriously, I was trolling another poster. My choke post was his from another thread. Just altered a couple of words. As you can see it worked magnificently. I later expressed that it wasn't a choke. I don't believe in chokes unless it involves a baseball team blowing a 7 game lead with 17 play. Other than that not many chokes out there in my eyes.

We can move on so this thread can be about the finals. That chapter of BWs is now closed.
 
pipermal1 said:
Hedman is unbelievable. A better version of Neidermeyer
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Easy there. Do not forget how good Scott Niedermayer was and for how long. Hedman has the chance to be a great player here - but he's not the better version of Niedermayer. Certainly not yet.
 
I watched a ton of Devils games. My family had season tickets. I watched Niedermeyer a bunch. Hedman is bigger, stronger and handles the stick better. He will have to do out for a while you are right
 
scary part is Tampa has Drouin who was picked 3rd a few years back who hasnt even cracked the regular lineup yet. if theyre able to get another legit DMan they will be a force for awhile. most of their best players are all 25 or younger. take a look at how many guys they've gotten later on in drafts or even undrafted (Tyler Johnson)
 
pipermal1 said:
I watched a ton of Devils games. My family had season tickets. I watched Niedermeyer a bunch. Hedman is bigger, stronger and handles the stick better. He will have to do out for a while you are right
Click to expand...


He's physically more gifted with size but as good a skater as he is, he's not in Niedermayer's class there. Also, Nieds played for a team that lived, breathed and ate defense predominately. He was a thoroughbred with the reigns held firm at all times in exchange for team success. Hedman has the luxury of being able to wheel when he sees fit. Kid's a helluva hockey player, no one is arguing that - but if Niedermayer is not in the top ten all time defenseman, then he is unquestionably in the first group outside of it. I'd personally argue for his inclusion in it, but no one who's followed this game for a while will have him outside the top 12 or 14 or so all time. No one. When Hedman is in that conversation, we can revisit. I wont rule out the possibility, but he's got a lot to accomplish here before we get there. He can steal a Conn Smyth here as well because T Johnson has cooled down a lot. That certainly helps him.
 
Fair points Ninetynine. Many felt it was a year or two early for Tampa. Its been a while since we have seen the level of youthful talent they have. They are fun to watch.
 
I'd argue that their time is now - Stamkos is in his prime at at 24 so is Hedman. Yeah they Are young but all that means is that with some success it will be tough to keep their players when they get arbitration eligible. In a summer or two Yzerman will have some decisions to make - that's the nature of the cap. Btw - Always loved Callahan but that contract for that many years is going to hurt badly at some point and I think that will be sooner than later.
 
Mike Missanelli told me the Blackhawks were a stone lock before the series tho. Yes a -130 is a "stone lock".

F'n Christ.
 
Have to say that Hedman skates like the wind for a big defensemen. Also has a mean streak. Love to have him on the Flyers.

After watching this series I can honestly say that the Flyers are VERY far away from doing anything in the playoffs. They are going to need to make 5-6 more moves and pray that the dmen they have coming up are as good as been billed.
 
Tampa has one of the best owners in sports. They will work out the cap issues. Whenever anyone has a good young teams fans of other teams defense system is to point to the team not being able to pay all their players. The lightning have no monetary issues it is a very successful franchise. 5000 people sit outside to watch games. They were 9th in attendance better than big cities like NY and LA. Hard to believe when you think of the corporate money available in those cities.
 
Full marks to their owner for spending all the way, but that's not going to be his biggest problem. His problem is how much he is allowed to spend. They are already pretty much up against the cap and will have raises and new guys to sign. They are locked in to some high priced guys for a few years that they either wont unload for obvious reasons (Stamkos) or will never be able to unload (Callahan). So their cap problem is not going anywhere - and that's not uncommon for a good team competing for a Cup. Just about all of them have it. But make no mistake, it's there and it means that they will have to make hard decisions. For instance, Hedman is a UFA July 1, 2017 - what do you think his number will be? 8M? 9M? 10M (with a slightly hgher cap) For 7 or 8 years? Not impossible. That's basically doubling his current cap hit - on a team that is already up against the ceiling. Something will give, so that is why these windows are so important. Good problems to have though.
 
You are talking two years from now. Everyone is basically signed through next year. Keep in mind the Lightning are 24th on the list for cap space. The Flyers, Rangers, LA, Washington are all in worse cap space. The guys you are talking about are already making big bucks. Stamkos 7.5m per year, Hedman 4m, Tyler Johnson almost 4m so they are not making 500k a year going up to some massive contract. The guy who will go is Bishop who is making 6m per year. Kucherov will be the one that gets a major increase in salary. The management of Tampa was smart and signed most of the guys to long term contracts.

You are wrong on Callahan a lot of teams would trade for him in a heart beat. He is a great player who is a leader in the locker room. Tampa would not want to trade him they love him. The guy came back from surgery about two weeks ago.
 
Tampa is already pretty much up against it. I'd imagine a guy like Killorn is dealt this summer to make some room.
 
pipermal1 said:
They have no contracts to worry about next year.
Click to expand...

Namestnikov, but he'll be cheap.

look at 16-17. the following players need new contracts:

Steven Stamkos
Alex Killorn
Nikita Kucherov
Cedric Paquette
Brayden Coburn

thats a lot of coin.
 
On who. Stamkos is already making 7.5m per year. Kucherov will get a nice increase but no big issues for them and bishop will be coming off a contract making 6m per year and they love the youngster. Stamkos will get an extension in the offseason its already been in the works according to the local tampa media. rumor is 5 years 45 million or 9m per year is what he wants. so a 1.5m a year salary hit. I see Bishop as the guy to go which will make room for 6m plus whatever the cap increases to. Other than Kucherov those other guys are being paid a lot they are not under paid for their skill set at all. Killhorn makes 2.55m, Coburn makes 4.5m these guys are not going to get big increases maybe Paquette who makes 1m. So no big deal for the 17 season

This is making something out of nothing. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning/. These guys are already making big money at least the ones who most think aren't.
 
pipermal1 said:
You are talking two years from now. Everyone is basically signed through next year. Keep in mind the Lightning are 24th on the list for cap space. The Flyers, Rangers, LA, Washington are all in worse cap space. The guys you are talking about are already making big bucks. Stamkos 7.5m per year, Hedman 4m, Tyler Johnson almost 4m so they are not making 500k a year going up to some massive contract. The guy who will go is Bishop who is making 6m per year. Kucherov will be the one that gets a major increase in salary. The management of Tampa was smart and signed most of the guys to long term contracts.

You are wrong on Callahan a lot of teams would trade for him in a heart beat. He is a great player who is a leader in the locker room. Tampa would not want to trade him they love him. The guy came back from surgery about two weeks ago.
Click to expand...


No one will trade for Ryan Callahan's 6M over the next 5 years or whatever. Too many miles, too little production for that kind of money - that thing is dead weight in about 2 years and it goes till 2020. That's a fact. Also - 24th out of 30 in cap doesn't mean much - because they are virtually at the ceiling with a lot of raises due. Team probably has a good couple of years ahead, then it's going to get tricky very quickly. Hedman has 2 years left - then his number will be 2.5X what it is now. Stamkos is up NEXT Summer and he's unrestricted. He's getting 9M+. Killorn and JT Bown will get raises after next year as well. This is their window.
 
We shall see I guess. I just don't see it. They will keep their top talent and have some youngsters who haven't made an impact yet like Drouin. They have a few year run at least but much can happen injury wise in hockey and a great goalie can steal a series. Keep in mind they are loosing some big contracts like Ohlund at 3.6m and bishop at 6m. That creates a lot of space.

also Hedman makes 4m per year now he is not going to make 10m per year if he does in 2 years he is the best player in the league. The top salary in the league is 9.5m.
 
Last edited:
The NHL can't even put all of their games on network television. I think Anerican Ninja bumped it the other night. And they're getting destroyed by the NBA.

Discuss.
 
pipermal1 said:
We shall see I guess. I just don't see it. They will keep their top talent and have some youngsters who haven't made an impact yet like Drouin. They have a few year run at least but much can happen injury wise in hockey and a great goalie can steal a series. Keep in mind they are loosing some big contracts like Ohlund at 3.6m and bishop at 6m. That creates a lot of space.
Click to expand...


Still have dead weight in Matt Carle at a big number. I do think they will be good for the next couple years baring big injuries. But these windows are proving to be fleeting in the NHL. Most people thought the Bruins and Pens would be a dynasty. They were not. I'd say the same thing about my own team btw. Maybe 2 more years of current window.
 
Games are doing very well - all time high for some of these rounds and games actually, including the final. Yawn if ever there was one. Good try though.
 
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