State of the Union
- Thread starter NovaHoops2002
- Start date
Obama will further diminish the speech/office and propose a bunch of things to bait the narrative into a class warfare stance. Note, none of these proposals serve the purpose to advance issues to help America because they have no chance of ever becoming law, He will further demonstrate his unbelievable weakness/tone deafness as a leader and divide the country further. This occurs at a time foreign policy is becoming more important and he's proving to be the most over-matched President in that regard in our nation's history. Other than that I expect it to be a great speech.
Since every major problem has been solved in SOTU addresses since FDR, I expect us to be trouble free after tonight, as usual.
btw - who's doing better than us right now? (Besides Norway)
btw - who's doing better than us right now? (Besides Norway)
Despite all our "problems", the US is still by far the greatest country in the world and I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else.
He will go out of his way to show that we "Stand with France and our European allies in the fight against terror." This will then get an extended standing ovation from the entire chamber. He will then pivot to talking about how we have "ended" the war in Afghanistan and lie about how stable things are there.
Agree.
Let me offer this as a counter however on the global issues. Last night there was a guy who attended the GOP retreat in Hershey. Someone asked him if any speakers impressed him during the retreat. He said Tony Blair gave one of the most poignant speeches he's ever heard. Blair began by examining that day's paper and noted 13 instances of hot spots/terror events just in that day's paper. His speech centered around the growing threat our way of life is under and the real implications of radical Islam. He detailed what in his view was happening in Europe and how the US foreign policy has taken many steps back and caused great instability in that region of the world. He noted how our current leader was so out-of-touch with the threat and really the ways of the world. Specifically Putin and more importantly our new stance towards Iran's enrichment program. My guess is most folks aren't paying attention to what Obama is doing but we're on the verge of allowing Iran to enrich. Please read that line again and understand what it means. I had a dinner last Monday with two Senators on the Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committee and heard a similar message.
So yes, the good news is we're better than the rest. The bad news is we have an emerging real threat with major motivation to cause significant unrest to our way of life. Couple that with an Administration so over-their-head and unprepared on said issues it's a major problem. Not to mention we've just given Iran a green light to enrich their nuclear program, which will lead to an arms race in the Middle East. Outside of that, things are great and I look forward to the President's speech on how rich people are bad and we need more immigrants in this country.
Tony Blair?
Tony Blair is not serious about Whabbi world-wide jihadism.
Holy Sh%t is that guy a fraud.
Just another Western leader who pretends to be against terroism why sucking Saudi Arabian dic$k.
This post was edited on 1/20 11:33 AM by cleanwave
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blairs-company-brokered-deals-with-chinese-officials-for-saudi-arabia-oil-firm-9849835.html
Tony Blair is not serious about Whabbi world-wide jihadism.
Holy Sh%t is that guy a fraud.
Just another Western leader who pretends to be against terroism why sucking Saudi Arabian dic$k.
This post was edited on 1/20 11:33 AM by cleanwave
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blairs-company-brokered-deals-with-chinese-officials-for-saudi-arabia-oil-firm-9849835.html
I was just speaking with a old friend and I asked him if he could come up with one current politician on either side of the aisle that does not make him want to puke. We both agreed on Rand Paul. But that was it.
Never seen a bigger bunch of frauds and lunatics in my life. Country is clearly center right and all we get are extremist nut bags that are all for sale. Openly for sale. Just a sad sack of dung. Corrupt and slimy and incompetent.
Never seen a bigger bunch of frauds and lunatics in my life. Country is clearly center right and all we get are extremist nut bags that are all for sale. Openly for sale. Just a sad sack of dung. Corrupt and slimy and incompetent.
Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't care about anything but his legacy. There will be a deal with Iran no matter how bad it is for the world so he can claim a victory. He will intensify his narrative of dividing the country and setting groups of people against each other - rich v. poor, black v. white, etc. He has no plan to combat Radical Islamic Terrorism but will continue to claim we are winning. Obama and his administration are in way over their heads and prove that every day. What should the Republicans do? First, totally ignore BO's attempt to drag them into a national argument. Then, put bills that are easy for the American people to understand on his desk every week. Start with Keystone, elimination of some of the most unpopular aspects of Obamacare, a flat tax coupled with the eventual closing down of the IRS, a bill to bring back the trillions of dollars American companies are holding overseas, etc. Make the President irrelevant and make it clear that he and the Progressives are the problem and not the solution.
ADP, there is a problem with the $ earned by the wealthiest Americans as compared to the middle class. This is not handouts for jobless, uneducated baby factories. This is addressing how cost of raising a family has far outpaced your typical, educated American family with 2 working parents and 2 kids. The cost of childcare, food, entertainment all increasing exponentially while wages are stagnant.
This country has been divided since its inception, and it will
never change. Federalist Papers 2 and 10 speak to income disparity.
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson didn't speak for fourteen years, and one of the
reasons was the plight of the poor. Aren't all or most politicians for sale?
Immigrants are creating jobs and businesses at a rate far greater then their numbers would
suggest. Bosnian immigrants now constitute almost twenty percent of the population of Utica,
New York, and the mayor of Utica said that they are Utica's hope for the future. I have driven
through neighborhoods there where these immigrants are involved in rebuilding scores of houses.
OT: adp 98, stay away from Hershey for golf; the courses there are not all they are cracked
up to be.
never change. Federalist Papers 2 and 10 speak to income disparity.
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson didn't speak for fourteen years, and one of the
reasons was the plight of the poor. Aren't all or most politicians for sale?
Immigrants are creating jobs and businesses at a rate far greater then their numbers would
suggest. Bosnian immigrants now constitute almost twenty percent of the population of Utica,
New York, and the mayor of Utica said that they are Utica's hope for the future. I have driven
through neighborhoods there where these immigrants are involved in rebuilding scores of houses.
OT: adp 98, stay away from Hershey for golf; the courses there are not all they are cracked
up to be.
Totally agree. For these folks the Affordable Care Act was the single worst piece of legislation ever written. The problem with redistribution per the President's view, the middle are the people who get crushed under a redistribution model of governance. Taxes are pushed down and the cost of goods/services go up as a result, Rich people can absorb the cost, the bottom pays nothing and the middle gets crushed. Again, for folks who actually understand the Affordable Care Act, it's the best example of this type of wealth transfer-policy and how it crushes the middle class.
This post was edited on 1/20 12:38 PM by adp98
I completely agree, Dr V, but the answer is not to tax the rich to fund projects that people in the ivory tower of the White House dream up. How will guaranteeing free community college help your situation. How will closing the trust loophole give you more money to buy groceries? How will lowering the Estate Tax threshold help you pay for your kids' educations? This is just more meaningless populism and taking more money that will disappear down the government financial rat hole.
Just don't watch it and carry on with your life tomorrow. Work hard and we will continue to live our very comfortable and easy way of life
Republicans are the voice of the wealthy and the ones who think they can get wealthy. Flat tax is the absolute last thing they want. Takes away the majority of their taking points. Same is true for the other side of course.
Keystone is a wank btw. Wonderful for Canada and China and of very little use to us. In fact, it most likely bumps up the price of oil for most of us here, as that supply is going to move off shore. No one from TransCanada denies this, and they have refused to say what amount, if any, would contractually be made to stay here. Won't ven get into the environmental aspects of it, which have literally zero upside. Not worth dick to us this thing. But some people will get really rich from it so I expect it to happen eventually. They're building a lot of other pipeline anyway. Yet to hear a genuine upside to this particular one though.
Wealth has already been transferred, the largest in our history by a mile, long before Obamacare, or this president. Last 30 years have pretty much end gamed wealth for all intents. That's not to say Obamacare has helped of course. It hasnt. But through goverment model, wealth most certainly has been redistributed, bottom and middle to top. Very clear statistical fact.
No - everyone who is poor and living on the governments dime is out there 10 hours a day trying to find work.
Really have no idea. But I do feel it's our nation's biggest threat by wide margin. Currently, 10% of the people own 75% of the wealth in this country, so without even having to win math olympics to figure the rest out, that leaves 90% vying for the remaining 25%. And those numbers continue to trend the same way they have for the last 30 or so years. Soon that number, under current trends, will be 10% owning 90% of all wealth - some models have that within 10-15 years.
If you can, try not to look at this as anything but statistical facts. That's a lot of people who will invariably wind up with very little, and since we are a service and consumer economy that relaies predominately on people buying a lot of stuff, we are not very far away from just a small slice of the 300M here with any kind of real spending ability. That is absolutely on the horizon here. Again, these are the numbers. No politics. I do not think that 10% can spend enough to sustain our economy.
No what? We don't like unions or gov't employees. We can't touch CEO's or corporations because they are 'job creators'. We cannot raise Min Wage, because that's a small (and big) business killer. We cannot tax the rich because that's punishmen for success. The poor have nothing to tax. The middle class are sinking rapidly.
Again, no answers. Just looking at the numbers. They're real.
It's a tough situation. The numbers don't lie so logic would suggest the only way out is to provide a pathway to growth for those people in the 90%. Seems like government adding costs and trying just redistribute money would only drive costs further and diminish purchasing power for those who can least afford. We need to grow that remaining 25% pie in terms of total dollars. The % numbers are less relevent because if you have more money you're in a position to make more money. That will skew those numbers. However, if you can grow the pie for that 25% it's seems to be a more efficient/realistic way to address the problem. My hope is that is where we focus.
Compelling argument.
In addition:
Those good, high paying middle class manufacturing jobs that are long gone aren't coming back. We can't compete with overseas labor markets in which the prevailing wage is about 10 cents an hour. Those overseas labor markets are feeding demand for non-renewable energy sources, which keeps prices and operating costs high. Health care costs are snowballing which kills any incentive to create jobs in this country. The cost of higher education is completely out of control.
I'm more than a little concerned about what the world is going to look like for my kids and grandkids.
It's a scary proposition.
Interesting thought. I am not at all sure there is enough growth in that 25% to sustain the 75% (or 80 or 85%) meaningfully. One, because the numbers are trending the other way (their population as a % are growing, and their take is shrinking). So even a pie eyed growth of that 25% might not do much because the number of people in the 75% is going to grow. Has been for a while. I also don't buy that if these people have more money, they will be in a position to make more money. True for some on the higher end those 25% perhaps, but most are at best going to be able to simple not drown. That or sinply digging out of thr hole to some acceptable level would be a win for most of them. I see it in my town all the time - which is a fairly wonderful small town to live. Two parents working long hours to simple stay level. Level here is better than a lot of places, yes, but it's not like families don't worry about money, or how they will pay for college or unforeseen medical expenses.
But in any event, let's be optimistic. How to grow that 25% so it can feed more of the 75-80% in the coming years?
Most of this is the result of people becoming wealthy because they start very successful businesses. E.g., Zuckerberg starts Facebook, a company that didn't exist before, it's worth tens of billions, he owns most of it. Or Schmidt and Briny (sp) with Google. hundreds of billions. Bill Gates before them. Whatever. They own the equity. They also give a lot to their employees, who are millionaires. That's wealth. This is capitalism.
They give a lot away, but they're supposed to just have it taken from them? Curious what the real solutions are with the problem you're pointing out. Sounds like socialism is the right course for you?
Using % of wealth that x% owns is a deceiving statistic that insinuates that wealth is a zero sum game. Its also not crazy to assume that this ratio will never get better, and if it ever get's significantly worse, this country will likely be in the shitter. Its used simply as a statistic to insight class warfare because people are too quick (or stupid) to ignore the inherent math behind it.
Also, higher education being overprice is not the issue-more so the result of a college education becoming commoditized. Not everyone needs to or should go to college. People should not need to take out loans to go to school, for no other reason than the fact that everyone else goes. Going to college does not automatically make people smarter or more qualified. The middle class used to not be straddled with the cost of higher education-now in order to keep up, you have to, in a lot of cases, for a piece of paper.
Also, higher education being overprice is not the issue-more so the result of a college education becoming commoditized. Not everyone needs to or should go to college. People should not need to take out loans to go to school, for no other reason than the fact that everyone else goes. Going to college does not automatically make people smarter or more qualified. The middle class used to not be straddled with the cost of higher education-now in order to keep up, you have to, in a lot of cases, for a piece of paper.
No, they're not. They have families and good schools and jobs that pay pretty well in or around NYC - many of which are not easily transferable to any random region for few grand in property tax savings.
Again, it's not time to center this discussion on Obama as this trend has been going on for years. The very top, as the numbers tell us, have been just fine here - D or R in office. It's not about that. It's how to put more money in more hands, which will be needed in pretty short order here.