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Queeny Hamels no hitter?

I say trade Hamels for Puig and a minor leaguer. In the offseason, sign David Price, Heyward, and Weiters. Bring up Crawford and let him get run. No reason why he can't play at the MLB level right now. You've got a lineup of Crawford, Heyward, Puig, Franco, Howard, Weiters, etc. Starting pitching is Price, Nola, Morgan, bring up Eflin, and sign joe schmo at the 5.

I'm mostly kidding about this. I'd sign Heyward though. He's only 26. If you move Hamels then he's off the books. Lee comes off the books. Utley is coming off the books. Paps hopefully gets moved and comes off the books. So who is getting paid? Are they going down to a 50 - 80 million dollar club again to recoup their lost cash from the past few seasons?
 
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Again, no one said they didn't happen. Just what the hell are you talking about?

Finnegan was ranked #55 in all of baseball prior to this year. Showed some good stuff in relief app in last year's WS. The other guy was once ranked in top 20 a couple of years ago. He slipped a little, but I believe has been very good at AAA this year (9-1, sub-3 ERA).

It was a solid return. Who is saying they got back three out of this world prospects?

Anyway, Cueto more than likely moves on after this season. Why? Because he's getting 5/6 years at 25+ million. Again, that's not Hamels. He's signed. There is value in that. Please, pat attention better.

Let's cut to the chase and save a lot of team. You give me a scenario of what would be a acceptable return for Hameks. Maybe, we'll agree.
 
adp98 said:
So, the point you are making is the rentals will cost a ton to resign? That's an entirely different argument.
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Yes. And only comparing that to Hamels already under control. I'm not saying teams might not prefer a top-notch rental. They do in some cases. But other teams see value in having control of a pitcher, too.
 
wcburrs87 said:
Yes. And only comparing that to Hamels already under control. I'm not saying teams might not prefer a top-notch rental. They do in some cases. But other teams see value in having control of a pitcher, too.
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You weren't wording it artfully. The point is not what it will cost to resign these guys. The Astros and Royals don't care as they won't be playing that game. Which is why the deal got done. It also doesn't cost top prospects to sign FA's. Rich teams would rather have their top prospects because they save lots of money for a long time and enables them to afford signing FA's. The Dodgers for instance don't care if Hamels is signed. They can pay whomever they want but won't give up their top studs. Same for the Red Sox. They have money to burn because they have money to burn and their systems are producing kids. So yes, for these teams having him signed is a plus. However, you're still not getting their top studs. So again, just make the best deal and move on.
 
The Dodgers also know they haven't won a WS in 27 years and a rotation of Kershaw-Grienke-Hamels makes them the favorites. Sometimes you have to give up a prized chip in order to win now.

Also, signing top FAs leads you to losing your top pick in your draft.

Are you going to tell me what the Phillies should accept back for Hamels? Be specific, not some general they should get a couple of decent kids back.
 
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Two top 100 prospects would be a fair deal. You might be able to add a 3rd player. Do that and you've done your job. They are not going to get 4 or 5 stud prospects for a 31 year old pitcher due another $80 mil if you factor in the remainder of this season. It's a reasonable contract but still comes at a cost, $80 million. Teams aren't paying all that money and giving you a bunch of their top prosects. Rizzo got Turner (now a top 25 guy and maybe our SS come September) and Ross (top 50 stud) for Stephen feaking Souza. The Phils can get this or better for Hamels and begin the rebuild. The key is do you trust your people to get the right prospects. They didn't trust the Rube so now you've go an adult in the room to make the call. Get it done before Thursday.
 
For the record, I have never suggested 4/5 studs. Never. I have never come close to suggesting that.
 
So for the record, you need to put down your thoughts on a fair return. You keep telling us what you didn't say. So what are you saying or do we need to wait until aft we the deal so you can tell us how great it is and you were right all along?
 
At the end of the day those are numbers on a page. You get the right two guys and the answer is yes. Do y ou trust th e Phillie's to pick the right two guys?
 
adp98 said:
So for the record, you need to put down your thoughts on a fair return. You keep telling us what you didn't say. So what are you saying or do we need to wait until aft we the deal so you can tell us how great it is and you were right all along?
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I have many times. It depends on the team. There are different scenarios that would work for me. I understand most teams are not in play here. Like I said at the beginning of the year when discussing that fair trade doesn't have to mean a top 25 prospect. Why? Because many of these kids are even in play.

When/if they make a trade I will evaluate and state whether or not I think it was a fair/good deal.

For example, if they with the LAD I don't necessarily need Seagers or Urias to be happy. Why? Because they have two other top 50 prospects at the moment.

Generally speaking I think they should come away with three players. Two should be highly rated prospects. Or one high prospect and a current young player already playing in big leagues (ie Puig).
 
adp98 said:
At the end of the day those are numbers on a page. You get the right two guys and the answer is yes. Do y ou trust th e Phillie's to pick the right two guys?
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This is why I want hits rated highly by ESPN, BA, etc....It can be a crapshoot regardless of who is making the trade. Baseball is littttrd with examples. Give me a couple of kids that the consensus say are good prospects. I can live with that. Full knowing there are no guarantees.
 
Exactly so just cut the deal and realize you're not going to rape and pillage teams because guys that age with $80 million owed aren't fetching you a bunch of can't miss players. Glad to see if only took you a year to get it.
 
adp98 said:
Exactly so just cut the deal and realize you're not going to rape and pillage teams because guys that age with $80 million owed aren't fetching you a bunch of can't miss players. Glad to see if only took you a year to get it.
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You really struggle to pay attention. Furthermore, you create details that were never uttered.

Furthermore, less than 1% of prospects are "can't miss" guys. I understood that a long time ago.
 
So for those scoring at home, burrs will give us tell us whats fair after the deal. That way he can tell us he's right. No deal means the Phillie's played it great because they didn't give him away. However, after they come away with two decent (read not top ranked) and a third guy thrown in, what many said would be the deal all along, he'll declare victory only after offering the caveat we can't judge the trade for another 18 years. Glad that's clear.
 
adp98 said:
So for those scoring at home, burrs will give us tell us whats fair after the deal. That way he can tell us he's right. No deal means the Phillie's played it great because they didn't give him away. However, after they come away with two decent (read not top ranked) and a third guy thrown in, what many said would be the deal all along, he'll declare victory only after offering the caveat we can't judge the trade for another 18 years. Glad that's clear.
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I kind of feel that this is the case. He should at least give the guidelines of what a good deal is.
 
adp98 said:
So for those scoring at home, burrs will give us tell us whats fair after the deal. That way he can tell us he's right. No deal means the Phillie's played it great because they didn't give him away. However, after they come away with two decent (read not top ranked) and a third guy thrown in, what many said would be the deal all along, he'll declare victory only after offering the caveat we can't judge the trade for another 18 years. Glad that's clear.
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I don't want to be right. I want to be happy. And even being happy doesn't guarantee anything. I don't want them reaching when trading someone like Hamels. This has been clear all along. And if teams are t going to pony up with a fair offer, then I don't care if he stays. Another thing that I've been clear about.

As an example, Jim Bowden of ESPN just posted a piece on trades he liked to see happen. #1 was Hamels to Texas for Mazara, Affarlo (spell ?), and Gonzalez. In my view something like that would be more than fair.

You define "decent" prospects? Top 100 guys in all of baseball are only "decent"? If so, then we look at that differently.
 
nardibynature123 said:
I kind of feel that this is the case. He should at least give the guidelines of what a good deal is.
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It's hard to say exactly what the guidelines are. There are different teams involved. Some have more higher-end prospects. Some have guys currently on the big league roster that could be attractive.

I'll tell what I don't want. To make a trade with a team like TX or LA and get their 6th, 10th, and 17th best prospects, while they get to sit on their top 5 guys and get Cole Hamels. **** that!

I've been very clear all along. It's not my fault you guys can't comprehend it.
 
adp98 said:
Anyone catch those goalpoats?
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What are you talking about?

You're moving the goal posts here.

What is not clear about my opinions on this?

You're a frustrating guy to deal with sometimes.

There is no such thing as one optimal trade involving Hamels.
 
Burrs, don't ask people to answer question you will not and then get frustrated. You want to keep your options open, we all know the deal. We'll save you the trouble, great trade
 
This is kinda like saying, "I have to wait to see how other teams in the Phillies division do to see how whether or not I can call it a successful season."
 
adp98 said:
Burrs, don't ask people to answer question you will not and then get frustrated. You want to keep your options open, we all know the deal. We'll save you the trouble, great trade
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Ask me whatever you want? I answer everything, all of the time....

I gave an example of something I thought would be fair with the Bowden example.

I gave a scenario that I didn't find acceptable.

What do you want me to say? I think there are multiple scenarios that would be considered fair.

Remember at this point I just want the perception of a trade to be fair on paper. I'd like to hear baseball insiders say good deal for both clubs. I know right now that it being a "great trade" from Phillies' perspective is a long ways off. These guys will have to play and perform for that to ever happen.

I really have no idea what you want to hear from me.
 
nardibynature123 said:
This is kinda like saying, "I have to wait to see how other teams in the Phillies division do to see how whether or not I can call it a successful season."
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Give me an example of the type of response that you and ADP would seem acceptable?
 
nardibynature123 said:
X amount of return would be a good deal.
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I gave one with Texas. I like Bowden's thoughts. That's something I would come up with.

So, do I have to do it with every possible team? The circumstances aren't the same depending on who the team is.

For example, if your Yankees wanted Hamels, then they need to give up Judge or Severino for starters. Why? Because after that their other prospects are lacking. Teams like TX, LAD, HOU have much deeper systems. So, getting their top guy or two isn't absolutely necessary.

Does this help?
 
obriend1 said:
I say trade Hamels for Puig and a minor leaguer. In the offseason, sign David Price, Heyward, and Weiters. Bring up Crawford and let him get run. No reason why he can't play at the MLB level right now. You've got a lineup of Crawford, Heyward, Puig, Franco, Howard, Weiters, etc. Starting pitching is Price, Nola, Morgan, bring up Eflin, and sign joe schmo at the 5.

I'm mostly kidding about this. I'd sign Heyward though. He's only 26. If you move Hamels then he's off the books. Lee comes off the books. Utley is coming off the books. Paps hopefully gets moved and comes off the books. So who is getting paid? Are they going down to a 50 - 80 million dollar club again to recoup their lost cash from the past few seasons?
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Burrs would have a heart attack if you posted the NBA version of this.
 
obriend1 said:
I say trade Hamels for Puig and a minor leaguer. In the offseason, sign David Price, Heyward, and Weiters. Bring up Crawford and let him get run. No reason why he can't play at the MLB level right now. You've got a lineup of Crawford, Heyward, Puig, Franco, Howard, Weiters, etc. Starting pitching is Price, Nola, Morgan, bring up Eflin, and sign joe schmo at the 5.

I'm mostly kidding about this. I'd sign Heyward though. He's only 26. If you move Hamels then he's off the books. Lee comes off the books. Utley is coming off the books. Paps hopefully gets moved and comes off the books. So who is getting paid? Are they going down to a 50 - 80 million dollar club again to recoup their lost cash from the past few seasons?
Click to expand...

Actually, I enjoyed this and would certainly entertain it. It's not my money.
 
nardibynature123 said:
Dodgers are the most likely, so I would say what would be suitable.
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Not sure I agree with this. Many are saying its Texas.

Most of the Dodgers top guys are pitchers and I believe the Phillies prefer bats.

Anyhow, I don't know the Dodgers system inside and out, but if they unwilling to part with Seagers, then I'd push for Urias and a couple of others.

Maybe, a combo of Puig, DeLeon, Anderson, and Holmes.
 
ShoesEvenShinier said:
His start was moved up from Friday the 31st to Thursday the 30th. This tells me the Phillies are so desperate for revenue that they are making him pitch one last time at home to get a huge walk up bump in attendance from lemmings going to see his last start at home.

Because they are so greedy, I hope he gets hurt and blows whatever deal they had in place for Friday.
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Moved back to Friday. Otherwise, solid theory.
 
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