Sixers Draft/Trade Rumors
- Thread starter Burrs5
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I mentioned this earlier. You're not getting those guys for the 3rd pick and any of the players BOS has on their roster. Well, maybe Parker. Probably why they're coming back to the Sixers.
tweet b$ posted about ainge offering the third pick and getting shot down
middleton and butler are good players. parker isn't, really
i think i like baldwin better than dunn
middleton and butler are good players. parker isn't, really
i think i like baldwin better than dunn
Ok.
I like Baldwin, but not better than Dunn. Can't say I saw a ton of him, tho.
If you trade Okafor for the third pick, I would rather have Murray than Dunn because both Dunn and Simmons need the ball in their hands and neither one is a reliable outside threat at this point--------so in my mind you need to get an above average shooter to play with Simmons------and thats why I think Murray makes more sense for the Sixers if they trade for that third (Celtics) or even the fourth pick (Phoenix). Murray is basically a 2 but I also think he has the skills and smarts to play some NBA point as well----plus he's two inches taller than Dunn which also helps.
John Wall won the NBA slam dunk contest and he's bigger. Dunn isn't on the same level athletically or skill wise as John Wall or Westbrook. I thought you guys watched the NBA. This is crazy talk.
You're wrong. Athletically/Physical skills are cimpatable. I already stated that it doesn't mean he'll be as good......oh yea, I also stated that Westbrook is unique and said a better comparison is Wall.
Strengths
"Dunn possesses textbook physical tools for a point guard, as well as a potent blend of speed, power and agility. At 6'4", 205 pounds with a 6'9" wingspan, his measurements are right on par with Washington Wizards leader John Wall."
I'll find other comments like this if you'd like.
He's like a john wall, he isn't john wall and he's nowhere near a Westbrook. He's a good athlete and will defend right away. The hype machine is out of control. This guy wasn't even PC's best player when we played them. Silly talk.
Wade baldwin measured better, lets call him a Michael jordan.
The fact all these teams are looking to dump these picks and can't get the available vets reinforces the point in have been making for over a year. You guys value these draft picks a lot higher than reality. These are a bunch of kids (not in dunn's case as he's only 3 years younger than wall for instance) with massive holes in their games. You don't win with a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds and no sure things in the bunch. You let the draft guys fill your head with these comparisons. Take Baldwin, he can't play but measures well.
The fact all these teams are looking to dump these picks and can't get the available vets reinforces the point in have been making for over a year. You guys value these draft picks a lot higher than reality. These are a bunch of kids (not in dunn's case as he's only 3 years younger than wall for instance) with massive holes in their games. You don't win with a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds and no sure things in the bunch. You let the draft guys fill your head with these comparisons. Take Baldwin, he can't play but measures well.
Walls' speed is otherworldly and he was far better at getting to the rim as a freshman than Dunn was last year as a junior. Bugged me about Dunn was he disappeared for long stretches and wasn't great at keeping good players in front on him at the college level.
Who cares about when Villanova played them? Meaningless. Durant did dick when he played Nova that one year. Move on from that as being something important. He's been the best player in the BE for 2 years now. Yes, this draft isn't anything crazy in terms of multiple can't miss prospects. I agree with you. No one has him in the HOF yet. Someone else compared him to Westbrook. I agreed with you that that was off. RW is unique, basically a freak of nature in some ways. I said a better comparison from an athletic/physical skill perspective is Wall. It's not an outlandish statement from that view. No reason to lose your shit over.
Hey, if the Sixers end up getting into the 3-7 range and end up with someone like Murray, then that will be fine with me. I like Dunn slightly better, but I don't think the difference is so great that sleep would be lost. Yes, Dunn might not ever be the shooter a team needs, but by same token Murray isn't a great athlete and may struggle defensively. He looks like he'll be a solid shooter and a scorer, but there are two ends of the court. None of them are above having no flaws.
Actually, I draw my own comparisons.
I value the picks exactly for what they are. I think moving someone like Okafor, the 3rd pick last year, would be ok for a player in the 3-7 range this year. Now, if people were on here saying the Sixers have the 3rd pick, so why won't the Bulls give us Jimmy Butler, then you would have a point about over-valuing the picks.
You don't win with a bunch of 19-20 year olds, but you can develop a team with those jids and if you land that really good player at some point, then you can win when they get a little older. No one is suggesting that the Sixers win 55 next year because they draft Ben Simmons. Relax, bro....
I know unreal, looks like the Sixers are trying for him with these comments.
Shut up!
Chances are the Sixers don't get him. I like him. Yea, I'd take him instead of having 15 bigs on the roster. Big deal. No one is pointing to anyone as the savior. However, his physical skills and athleticism are comparable to Wall, IMO. Keep the comment in its original context. They're comparable in that regard. That doesn't mean identical. And no one said he would turn out as good a player as Wall. Strictly speaking from the standpoint of what was mentioned. We have some poor readers on this site or just bad trolls.
I think you can say their skill set is comparable, but it's a bit unfair to Dunn to say their skills compare. Wall is a 6 year pro with rare speed and quickness. Dunn's a nice player - I think he's probably a good fit for the Sixers on the surface ( roster as it stands plus Simmons) - but Wall's a 3 time all star already and seems to be getting better. I can't see any single skill where Dunn might be better than Wall either. And i have no issue with Dunn whatsoever. That's not a knock on him.
Also - Dunn played with Bryce Cotton before Bentil - so it wasn't all stiffs. Cotton was a good college player.
Also - Dunn played with Bryce Cotton before Bentil - so it wasn't all stiffs. Cotton was a good college player.
In Cotton's senior year Dunn played in four games. Dunn played in 25 as a freshman when Cotton was a junior, but I think Dunn was hurt some of the time that year, too. Not really a good sample size. Generally speaking, PC didn't have a ton around him. I still believe the college game restricts a player like Dunn. We'll see if that's true after a few NBA seasons. Tho, I'm sure ADP will be pointing out his flaws after 20 games of his career.
Again, I'm not talking about future All-Star games and the such. Really not at that point yet. In fact, I don't think Dunn is as good as Wall or will turn out that good. Simply saying physical skills/athleticism are comparable. Yes, Wall is a better athlete, but overall it's a fair comparison. I could legitimately cite multiple examples of people saying the same.
Also, Dunn is 3 1/2 younger. We're seeing Wall at peak physicality over the last couple of years. He's a man. Dunn probably still has some growing/developing to do.
Lastly, because the Sixers have 15 bigs, then I'd prefer to have Dunn on this team than say Okafor. That's all.....
Here is the point guard the sixers should draft amd they can get him at 26: cousins. 6'6, shoots it and can guard. He reminds me of Alvin Williams. If you have simmons and Noel, grab murray; we need a shooter and these other guys can cover defensively. I get the dunn love. However, he's being over-inflated because people are falling in love with what he might be. He's 22, had two really bad shoulder injuries, turns it over a ton and doesn't shoot very well. Cousins is a better fit in philly amd could be had at end of first top of 2nd round. He's a stud.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Burrs is losing it, guys. Let him yammer on about the NBA on his own.
I'm totally on board with this thought at the 24/26 spot. Fair thought. However, you end your post with, "he's a stud." If he was a stud then he wouldn't be going that late. No one called Dunn a stud and you went crazy over a physical skills comparison.
No one is saying go get Dunn at all cost. It's in the context that they can get back into the top 5 for possibly Okafor, maybe Noel (tho I don't want to move him).
He improved his shooting and turnovers last year. All guys that have the ball a ton and are the best player on their team are going to turn it over. As a headliner he played one year with a good player on that team. Had to do a lot.
I think he's a beast. Guy who comes in and can play right away, 10 year pro. Might never be an all star, but great guy in that spot for philly. He's a guy who has less upside but also less downside. He is what he is and thas a really good player. It's a case where these guys fall in love with upside and measurables. Go watch wade baldwin and watch cousins play. No way baldwin is a better player but he'll go 10-20 picks higher because he is quicker and can jump higher. Meanwhile, cousins can actually run a team, play d amd is a killer.
With Providence, last year and many years prior, true they have had some pros/great college players. However, they also always have guys that aren't even nBE caliber logging major minutes, big holes in roster and useless on the court. I'm not going to mark Dunn down because he had Bentil, when I know he had other guys who couldn't make or even get off a layup when open. Dunn will look different playing with 5 pros, instead of 1 pro and a couple guys who should've been playing for Duquesne or the Bonnies.
That's fair. I'm not going to blast you because you call him a beast and a stud in back-to-back posts. You try and do the same moving forward. I'd be ok with him at either of those spots. However, my hunch is that they move at least one of them.
I doubt you've seen much of Baldwin. I haven't either.
Also, Cousins is working out for the Sixers today.
Outside of Bentil, who?
Overall, their talent was lacking. Like Lowry said they had dudes that aren't high level nBE players. It's well documented that their spacing was awful last year. His teammates shot 29.1% from the arc. Those dudes weren't all that good.
Wish Boston would take
Is this is true, then why didn't he score more? Under 17ppg on a team you say had non D1 high end players other than Bentil.
Reasons I think Dunn didn't score more last year:
1. Focus on Dunn/Emergence of Bentil. Especially early, teams weren't ready for Bentil, whereas every game plan from day 1 was all about stopping Dunn, frequent double teams. Lots of 1-on-1 or open shots for Bentil, which was a good deal for Prov. No doubles for Dunn in NBA for the foreseeable future.
2. He was in foul trouble a lot. Games called very tight in college most of this year, don't think he'll have same issues in NBA.
3. He's great in transition. Prov. not a great transition team aside from Dunn, Bentil not that fast, lots of stiffs. He will be in the open floor more in the NBA and convert at a high rate.
4. I think he's an unselfish player, tries to get others involved. Maybe to a fault at times, but he had a good thing going with Bentil at least, and at times Bullock, would try to get them going.
1. Focus on Dunn/Emergence of Bentil. Especially early, teams weren't ready for Bentil, whereas every game plan from day 1 was all about stopping Dunn, frequent double teams. Lots of 1-on-1 or open shots for Bentil, which was a good deal for Prov. No doubles for Dunn in NBA for the foreseeable future.
2. He was in foul trouble a lot. Games called very tight in college most of this year, don't think he'll have same issues in NBA.
3. He's great in transition. Prov. not a great transition team aside from Dunn, Bentil not that fast, lots of stiffs. He will be in the open floor more in the NBA and convert at a high rate.
4. I think he's an unselfish player, tries to get others involved. Maybe to a fault at times, but he had a good thing going with Bentil at least, and at times Bullock, would try to get them going.
Good article on Dunn. Lists pros/cons. Basically this is how I look at it and why if they get into the 3-6 range then I'd take him if available.
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/06/22/kris-dunn-fit-ben-simmons/
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/06/22/kris-dunn-fit-ben-simmons/
Because if you stopped Dunn last year, or even contained him, you had a good shot of winning the game against Providence. Forced someone else on the floor to score, which happened at times but not often. They were not a hard game plan.
I don't know, did they have better players on that team in his JR season because his overall stats were better that year. I thought PC played real well early on, even beat Nova and then faded, this was well after Bentil was the established go to man on that team.
Sixers Plan A for a PG: Okafor for Dunn
Plan B for a PG: get Bembry or D. Jackson with one of the late picks, or move up a bit if possible to do so. I see these two having great upside relative to others in their range. Similar to the years that Lowry, Rondo and Lawson went in the low 20s vicinity.
Plan B for a PG: get Bembry or D. Jackson with one of the late picks, or move up a bit if possible to do so. I see these two having great upside relative to others in their range. Similar to the years that Lowry, Rondo and Lawson went in the low 20s vicinity.
Problem with Bembry is he's another guy who isn't a shooter. You cannot have 4 of those guys in noel, simmons, Dunn and bembry. Now if you get a cousins and bembry at 24 and 26 and murray at 4-6 its a better fit. Regardless, we still need 2 or 3 more shooters. Hopefully they spend some money and bring a few in or find a way to get Avery Bradley.
I think Bembry can develop a shot when he is focused on it as a pro. His mechanics look fluid enough for me, but he hasn't focused on it 100% as a collegian. Would be willing to take that leap he has the work ethic to get there as a pro.
Similar feelings about Dunn's shooting. Both very different than an Evan Turner for instance, whose shot just looked horrid. And he was No. 2, didn't prject nearly as well as Dunn in other areas.
Similar feelings about Dunn's shooting. Both very different than an Evan Turner for instance, whose shot just looked horrid. And he was No. 2, didn't prject nearly as well as Dunn in other areas.
Robert Covington is better shooter/player than all of those dudes (24 - 26 range picks) with a competent team on the floor. Put a real PG/Simmons out there and he'll be better.
I like Bembry. I don't think he'll ever be a good shooter, maybe average in time. However, he should be a good defender, passer, slashes a little, and is versatile. Not a bad gamble around those picks.
Isiah Cousins is gonna be a good pro? Holy shit I've seen it all on this board now. Teams were basically triple teaming Buddy Hield by the end of the year.
Know who else saw constant double and triple teams? Kris Dunn. Teams #1, 2 and 3 goals were to contain him. Double teams. Matchup zones. Box and ones. They could live with Bentil making some corner jumpers. But Dunn was the guy that would murder you if you didn't pay tons of attention to him. I swear some of you watch the games but don't really watch the games.
Also Dunn and Murray are the same size. The only thing Murray does better than Dunn is shoot. Dunn handles better, passes better, is strong, is much more athletic and defends better. BUT Murray's shooting and ability to shoot off screens is a good fit for today's league. He just doesn't do much else.
Know who else saw constant double and triple teams? Kris Dunn. Teams #1, 2 and 3 goals were to contain him. Double teams. Matchup zones. Box and ones. They could live with Bentil making some corner jumpers. But Dunn was the guy that would murder you if you didn't pay tons of attention to him. I swear some of you watch the games but don't really watch the games.
Also Dunn and Murray are the same size. The only thing Murray does better than Dunn is shoot. Dunn handles better, passes better, is strong, is much more athletic and defends better. BUT Murray's shooting and ability to shoot off screens is a good fit for today's league. He just doesn't do much else.