MLB trade deadline thread
- Thread starter OldManYellsatCloud
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Nick Williams, good prospect, and Rodriguez the pitcher along with the catcher? which sounds exactly like what they should get for a pitcher in his 30's who's owed a bunch of money. The CoPers completely over-estimated his worth. This is not a bad trade because they weren't willing to eat loads of money. Now if we found out they ate a bunch of money and didn't get their top prospects that's a bad deal. However, this is exactly what Hamels should return. Not getting studs but very solid guys. If they turn into good players it's a good trade. But Texas wasn't giving up their top studs, and neither would other teams absent eating lots of money.
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Williams is a very good prospect and was in the futures game. Again, the catcher is the best in the minor leagues. Rodriguez maybe involved as well. If they got those three, that would be a big win IMO. Nothing official.
It's basically Alfaro and Nick Williams for Hamels and Diekman. That's NOT good enough. Not even close.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 6m6 minutes ago
Told even more players in Hamels deal than what is being reported by others: Hamels, Diekman, cash for Alfaro, Williams, Eickhoff, Asher
Don't agree. That is a pretty damn good package. Look, it is rare and almost impossible to get the value of the ace you are trading. Look at recent history. Matt Laporta, Justin Smoak supposed #1 prospects? There is a lond list. They desperately needed a catcher and an outfielder and a pitcher and they got all three.
Matty please put the homer hat away. Hamels is an elite pitcher under control for THREE more yrs. This isn't a rental. 2 top 70 prospects for him IS NOT enough. Needed to get at least one other top 50 type. If you're not gonna get one stud prospect you better get at least a few 2nd tier guys. They only got 2.
I guess we'll see. Harrison also involved. Why don't we wait until the final we don't package.
gdog: You do realize that most are not brain dead like Beane and trade their #1 prospect (Russell) for two pitchers. It just doesn't happen. Thompson also involved. Wait again for the final package. The names keep changing.
The Texas boards are blowing up over Jake Thompson being included as well. Again, be patient and wait to see the FINAL PACKAGE.
ADP: Baseball America: Thompson #2 prospect, #3 Alfaro, # 5 Nick williams. Thompson is huge and again Texas boards not happy. Now, another like ESPN may have the prospect order different but this is a hell of a package.
You can find any list and they'll have different numbers assigned to the prospects. Looks like Harrison, Williams, Eichioff, Ashoff and Thompson and Alfaro. You didn't get either of their top 2 but got a few in their next tier. They also took Harrison to eat that contact and send additional money.
Its semantics.
Evan Grant @Evan_P_Grant 15m15 minutes ago
FInal deal and its a doozy: Matt Harrison, Alec Asher, Jerad Eickhoff, Nick Williams, Jorge Alfaro & Jake Thompson for Hamels+Diekman+Cash.
Amen. You have too hope there is a college level pitching stud to be had at #1 in 2016.
Rankings are fluid. They change a lot. Williams was ranked ahead Maxara last year. The catcher was #2 not long ago and probably dropped because he hasn't played due to ankle injury. At the beginning of the year Thompson was #2, the catcher #3, and Willians #5.
Never expected Gallo to be included. I would have liked Mazara, but maybe Williams ends up better. We won't know for a few years.
Overall, I think the return can turn out good. The Phillies system is much improved on paper. They'll have five top 100 prospects at this point, with recent top 100 guys Franco and Nola already up as 22-year olds. It's at least encouraging.
Never expected Gallo to be included. I would have liked Mazara, but maybe Williams ends up better. We won't know for a few years.
Overall, I think the return can turn out good. The Phillies system is much improved on paper. They'll have five top 100 prospects at this point, with recent top 100 guys Franco and Nola already up as 22-year olds. It's at least encouraging.
As a Phils fan, I'd say this is a reasonable return. Am confident that it's better than what they'd have gotten in the offseason when adp was saying they were crazy not to pull the trigger. Given the smoldering ruin this franchise is, had to do it now, rather than risk it going forward, long odds at contention anytime during remainder of Cole's deal, plus injury risk. Not a disaster like the Rolen and Schilling deals (not as much remaining under contract there, different circumstances, but still).
In 207 plate appearances this year, Alfaro has 9 walks and 61 K's. Should fit perfectly into this lineup.
They got quantity over quality. We'll see if it works out. Thompson projects as a 3rd starter, the catcher hasn't seen a pitch he doesn't like and OF seems like a good prospect. The rest is filler. They couldn't get the top guys so they got some extra players. Good job by the Phils as it was the best they could do and threw in cash to get Thompson. However, pupu platterish.
"It took six players, including pitcher Matt Harrison, prized catching prospectJorge Alfaro and outfielder Nick Williams, to acquire Hamels and reliever Jake Diekman.
But the Rangers didn’t have to give up slugging prospects Nomar Mazara or Joey Gallo.
Consider that a win for Daniels"
"It took six players, including pitcher Matt Harrison, prized catching prospectJorge Alfaro and outfielder Nick Williams, to acquire Hamels and reliever Jake Diekman.
But the Rangers didn’t have to give up slugging prospects Nomar Mazara or Joey Gallo.
Consider that a win for Daniels"
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Today will be the day that ADP cherry picks comments that support his side of the discussion.
Anyway, I once recall people saying that M. Franco swings at everything, too. Yet, he seems to be figuring it out.
One rival evaluator on the catcher.
"A really athletic catcher who has a double plus arm. He is going to hit and hit with power."
Really, we could do this all day, but we won't really know until a few years.
Anyway, I once recall people saying that M. Franco swings at everything, too. Yet, he seems to be figuring it out.
One rival evaluator on the catcher.
"A really athletic catcher who has a double plus arm. He is going to hit and hit with power."
Really, we could do this all day, but we won't really know until a few years.
I agree and said as much. I'll say it again, Phils did a good job. They were never going to get the top guys from teams for a guy owed $82 million. They did a good job considering the market. Some had an unrealistic expectation on the return. They got some flawed position prospects, a potential third starter and filler. They sent some money and a proven guy in Hamels. Seems like a good deal for both sides. Rangers didn't have to part with their top guys, got some cash and Hamels. Phils restocked their system. Seems like a slight win for Texas but none of us know. Both sides did well.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Not the worst possible, but I wouldn't be thrilled with it. Need some hitting. Would like to see Hamels go out there and murder the AL lineups that have only seen him a few times.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
They're essentially eating $36 million!?!?! 9.5 cash and 26 mill over 2 for this stuff Harrison. And they didn't get a top prospect!? Jesus.
Some argue that Phils should have kept Hamels, and if they moved him, they should have asked for "the moon" in return.
This flies in the face of adp's argument.
"Hamels is not a rental, like Price or Johnny Cueto, whom the Reds moved to Kansas City.
Hamels is an investment property. They should have asked for the moon. He's worth the moon."
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...ong_play_ahead_of_him__didn_t_need_to_go.html
This flies in the face of adp's argument.
"Hamels is not a rental, like Price or Johnny Cueto, whom the Reds moved to Kansas City.
Hamels is an investment property. They should have asked for the moon. He's worth the moon."
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...ong_play_ahead_of_him__didn_t_need_to_go.html
Yes. That's why it was a good deal for both sides. Rangers basically got the Phils to eat nearly half of Hamels contract and still held onto their top two guys. However, I can't kill the Phillies here. It was going to be very hard to get elite prospects for a guy owed that much money and so many other pitchers out there. They did as well as could be expected.
Cole Hamels is 23-30 since the beginning of the 2013 season (hasn't had a winning season since 2012). Obviously the season isn't over, but he has his highest ERA since the 2009 season. He's not worth the moon.
You can't just look at his W-L record. His run support has been laughable.
Also turns out that Thompson is their best pitching prospect. Maybe burrs was right after all.
Also turns out that Thompson is their best pitching prospect. Maybe burrs was right after all.
I think on paper the return was good. They got three of their top 5 prospects and Texas is a top 10 system. They added a couple of other farms that maybe pan out.
However........The reality of the situation is that these types of trades, regardless of who makes them, fail at a higher rate than succeed. That's what history shows us. Need a little luck.
All young hitters have flaws. It's called being 21-22. The Williams kid intrigues me.
However........The reality of the situation is that these types of trades, regardless of who makes them, fail at a higher rate than succeed. That's what history shows us. Need a little luck.
All young hitters have flaws. It's called being 21-22. The Williams kid intrigues me.