NBA draft lottery

[Burrs5]

I don't despise Okafor as much as Johnny, ADP, etc......He was just a 19-year old for part of the season. Yes, he has warts that concern you, but far too soon to totally write him off.

But I have believed from day one that he was drafted to eventually be moved. I never had an opinion on Porzingus because I never saw him and none of the mocks had him going in top 3 last year. Some had him at four, but a higher % had him in the 5-9 range. Not sure why Hinkie, who supposedly scouted him numerous times, didn't pull the trigger there. So, at #3 I think they believed that Okafor was the best talent and ultimately would be able to get them the most back after Embiid returned, which I believe they thought was going to happen at some point.

Anyway, I'm open to trading Okafor, but I'm not dangling him just for the sake of getting rid of him. I believe need to and can get something back for him that improves the team from a positional fit.

 

[Anarchy99]

Some of Prozingis's workouts prior to the draft were utterly unimpressive. I do remember JG calling him the better pick immediately after the draft though. People were pretty divided on him this time a year ago however. Never seemed like some sort of sure thing.

 

[Burrs5]

Some of Prozingis's workouts prior to the draft were utterly unimpressive. I do remember JG calling him the better pick immediately after the draft though. People were pretty divided on him this time a year ago however. Never seemed like some sort of sure thing.

I agree.....

 

[adp98]

Part of the problem with Okafor is that he isn't totally useless. However, when you tank an entire year to get a building block and the result is Okafor that's the problem. There wasn't proper expectations management. The strategy was in play to get a difference-maker. Okafor simply isn't one because he doesn't defend, rebound or rim protect. The way the game is played those 3 things are more important than his ability to get the call and be the blackhole he is on offense. He can be a decent player in the right spot. He's not franchise maker by any stretch. That's the issue. After whiffing on Embiid, seeing how Noel is also limited it all boils over. Add in the fact Okafor is an absolute knuckle-head and it's not a good mix. Also why I think he gets moved soon. He doesn't want to be in Philly and I don't think the Sixers want him. He has some value but he's not fetching a huge return.

 

[gldendog]

ainge took rozier and james young in the same draft and is mormon, right?

none of the teams left really throw the ball into the post, and neither do the spurs or hawks. jordan was the bulls' best post scorer for all six titles with the brief possible exception of bison dele

the thunder are overpaying kanter because they have westbrook and durant and are/were desperate to get over the hump. kanter on an average team is like a gun to your own head. and at least he rebounds

okafor is f--king cotton candy. a shit defender with superficially appealing offense at a position where defense is way more important

The Spurs and Thunder don't use their bigs? The DIFFERENCE in that series was Kanter and Adams. They were tremendous. Just because Klay and Steph are 2 of the best shooters of all time doesn't mean that's the only way you can win. Sure having Lebron is nice too.

 

[Burrs5]

Part of the problem with Okafor is that he isn't totally useless. However, when you tank an entire year to get a building block and the result is Okafor that's the problem. There wasn't proper expectations management. The strategy was in play to get a difference-maker. Okafor simply isn't one because he doesn't defend, rebound or rim protect. The way the game is played those 3 things are more important than his ability to get the call and be the blackhole he is on offense. He can be a decent player in the right spot. He's not franchise maker by any stretch. That's the issue. After whiffing on Embiid, seeing how Noel is also limited it all boils over. Add in the fact Okafor is an absolute knuckle-head and it's not a good mix. Also why I think he gets moved soon. He doesn't want to be in Philly and I don't think the Sixers want him. He has some value but he's not fetching a huge return.

Agree with parts of this and disagree with other parts.

Describe what a huge return is? Let's get this on record.

Agree:
-He isn't totally useless.

-The strategy is to get a difference-maker. (No guarantee you get that via draft or can ONLY get it thru draft). Also, MAYBE that happens this year.

-He can be a decent player (I'll change to GOOD player) in the right spot.

-He might not be a good mix. True, for the Sixers might want to do. He may very well expendable. But that's ok. Part of it having players in place that help you advance the organization. That's either thru them playing or using them to get other players that can advance the team.

-Gets moved soon. Not sure how we define soon, but I'd put a draft night trade (Or soon after at least at 50/50, if not a little higher). Or, being moved after next season at about 80%.

-He has "some" value (I'd say more than just some, again it all depends on how you define it).

Disagree:
-Only PART of the tank is to get as high in the draft as possible. There are other parts (Accumulate picks, don't sign FAs to bad deals to soon, etc) No guarantee the "right" fit exists when you pick #3 in every draft. For example, there is one lock to be a future AS in last year's draft and that is Towns (Everyone knew he was the best player). Even with the promise and intrigue that Zinger showed this year, I wouldn't cement his place in the HOF just yet. Started to leak some oil prior to injury.

-19-year olds can get better. Tho, I don't think he'll ever be a great defensive player, it is possible for him to improve and possibly be average in time. All the while becoming an even better offensive player. I just don't get how anyone can write the book on 19/20/21 year olds.

-Not closing the book on Embiid, yet. Yes, it's the bottom of the 5th and he's K'd twice, but I'll take my chances with him at-bat and the sacks full in the bottom of the 7th

-I don't believe Okafor is a knucklehead. He made a couple of mistakes. I don't think he's going to be someone constantly getting in trouble in the next 10+ years.

Not sure how you 100% know he doesn't want to be here or that the Sixers don't want him. If either of that is in print, then I'd like to read it. And just because they trade doesn't mean they don't like him or think he is a good player. It just might mean that it was the course of action for the team considering what they already have and what they'll be acquiring in the very near future.

Did OKC not "want" James Harden? It's more about circumstances when a player is talented than wanting and not wanting, IMO.

 

[adp98]

Burrs, define a good return. He can fetch a mid first-rounder back. In a draft like this year Sixers could probably get something in the back of the lottery for him. Again, when you tank an entire year getting the 10th pick a draft not littered with studs isn't much. This isn't the NFL. That pick is Nick Staskus many years. I don't consider that much.

 

[adp98]

Here you go Burrs:

Andrew Sharp: Okafor has to go first, but I'd maybe look to move Nerlens, too. Let's take it one-by-one.

Okafor: If the plan is to actually use the number one pick, then Simmons would definitely replace Okafor at four. Ingram might, too, especially if he can add weight over the next few years. I'm not as down on Okafor as a lot of people, but I'm down on him in Philly. He's been awful on defense, he's had a couple bad incidents off the court, fans don't like him, he doesn't appear to be happy... A fresh start somewhere else make sense. Surrounded by the right pieces on a winning team that's not about to draft his replacement, he still has a ton of offensive talent.

If the Sixers can trade Okafor before the draft, they could potentially pick up an extra first round pick later in the lottery or into the teens -- maybe Boston at number 16? Chicago at 14? If they could turn Okafor into a rookie point guard from this draft, it would go a long way toward helping this roster make sense again.

 

[Burrs5]

Burrs, define a good return. He can fetch a mid first-rounder back. In a draft like this year Sixers could probably get something in the back of the lottery for him. Again, when you tank an entire year getting the 10th pick a draft not littered with studs isn't much. This isn't the NFL. That pick is Nick Staskus many years. I don't consider that much.

So, Okafor can get you the 15th-16th pick in a draft? Maybe, 12-14 this year? Is that what you're saying?

If so, sorry, I think you're way low.

I'm not sure how this Sixers' brass feels about him. You know, I'm not in their meetings. But I think Bos's #3 is definitely in play here. Also, there is ZERO chance the Sixers would give him up for what you suggested. That's downright silly.

 

[Burrs5]

Here you go Burrs:

Andrew Sharp: Okafor has to go first, but I'd maybe look to move Nerlens, too. Let's take it one-by-one.

Okafor: If the plan is to actually use the number one pick, then Simmons would definitely replace Okafor at four. Ingram might, too, especially if he can add weight over the next few years. I'm not as down on Okafor as a lot of people, but I'm down on him in Philly. He's been awful on defense, he's had a couple bad incidents off the court, fans don't like him, he doesn't appear to be happy... A fresh start somewhere else make sense. Surrounded by the right pieces on a winning team that's not about to draft his replacement, he still has a ton of offensive talent.

If the Sixers can trade Okafor before the draft, they could potentially pick up an extra first round pick later in the lottery or into the teens -- maybe Boston at number 16? Chicago at 14? If they could turn Okafor into a rookie point guard from this draft, it would go a long way toward helping this roster make sense again.

ADP, here you go....

One, Okafor isn't a four, he's a FIVE. Anyone with a brain understands this. Is this guy assuming that Embiid is playing? Because if he's not, then Okafor is the five.

Fans don't like him? Not sure about that. I hear waaaayyyy more we have to keep Okafor than get rid of him. Maybe, he polled dudes who have wives from Philly, who watched two Sxiers games this past year, and who thinks he's the pulse of this fan base from the DC area. I'm not sure about that.

I don't disagree with the fresh start someplace else and him not being a fit here. And, of course, I don't disagree with surrounding him with different pieces and having a ton of offensive talent.

And his trade proposal is to trade him before the draft and possibly add a mid-round pick on top of something else. Not just that alone. C'mon, wake up. At least, that's the way I'm inferring it.

Oh yea, can I get his thoughts on Noel, too.

By the way, is Andrew Sharp the be all end all? So, this proves you know what you're talking about?

Should I post the article of BOS fanboys and writers saying the Celtics should trade the #3 for him? Should I?

 

[adp98]

You simply asked to read it, so I provided. Sixers can't stand Okafor and will move him. He's a knuckle-head and not a great player or fit in Philly.

 

[adp98]

So, Okafor can get you the 15th-16th pick in a draft? Maybe, 12-14 this year? Is that what you're saying?

If so, sorry, I think you're way low.

I'm not sure how this Sixers' brass feels about him. You know, I'm not in their meetings. But I think Bos's #3 is definitely in play here. Also, there is ZERO chance the Sixers would give him up for what you suggested. That's downright silly.

I liked your earlier idea. Let's package Okafor, 24 and 26 for Bradley and a first rounder. I'm open to all options. Just get this clown out of town and give me something in return. I don't want him anywhere near Simmons or Ingram if he's the pick. We also need to get a few vets this off season. Not next year, this off season. Time to start doing this the right way.

 

[Burrs5]

You simply asked to read it, so I provided. Sixers can't stand Okafor and will move him. He's a knuckle-head and not a great player or fit in Philly.

I didn't ask to read anything. What are you talking about?

I love how you just pull things out of the air, "the Sixers can't stand Okafor." C'mon, dude. Let's use some facts every now and then.

Again, the best the Sixers can do in a trade for Okafor is 15-16th pick, maybe 12-14 in this year's draft? Yes or no?

 

[Burrs5]

I liked your earlier idea. Let's package Okafor, 24 and 26 for Bradley and a first rounder. I'm open to all options. Just get this clown out of town and give me something in return. I don't want him anywhere near Simmons or Ingram if he's the pick. We also need to get a few vets this off season. Not next year, this off season. Time to start doing this the right way.

To be specific...

Okafor/24th/26th for #3, a player (Bradley/Smart/Crowder), and #16.

or

Okafor for #3 and player.

Again, I'm open to trading him (BECAUSE THEY HAVE FRONT COURT GUYS AND HE'LL BRING THE MOST BACK), but I'm not giving him away.

 

[adp98]

Agree with parts of this and disagree with other parts.

Describe what a huge return is? Let's get this on record.

Agree:
-He isn't totally useless.

-The strategy is to get a difference-maker. (No guarantee you get that via draft or can ONLY get it thru draft). Also, MAYBE that happens this year.

-He can be a decent player (I'll change to GOOD player) in the right spot.

-He might not be a good mix. True, for the Sixers might want to do. He may very well expendable. But that's ok. Part of it having players in place that help you advance the organization. That's either thru them playing or using them to get other players that can advance the team.

-Gets moved soon. Not sure how we define soon, but I'd put a draft night trade (Or soon after at least at 50/50, if not a little higher). Or, being moved after next season at about 80%.

-He has "some" value (I'd say more than just some, again it all depends on how you define it).



Not sure how you 100% know he doesn't want to be here or that the Sixers don't want him. If either of that is in print, then I'd like to read it. And just because they trade doesn't mean they don't like him or think he is a good player. It just might mean that it was the course of action for the team considering what they already have and what they'll be acquiring in the very near future.

Did OKC not "want" James Harden? It's more about circumstances when a player is talented than wanting and not wanting, IMO.

 

[gldendog]

i don't like smart that much (and see dunn as a destitute man's smart--most significantly without the elite on-ball defense)

i would want bradley & crowder, and some kind of pick exchange--#3 and #16 for #24, #26, and the lakers pick, maybe

again, the most important thing is to move okafor on draft night and move on

Burrs, define a good return. He can fetch a mid first-rounder back. In a draft like this year Sixers could probably get something in the back of the lottery for him. Again, when you tank an entire year getting the 10th pick a draft not littered with studs isn't much. This isn't the NFL. That pick is Nick Staskus many years. I don't consider that much.

ADP. Jesus Christ. Stop. He can fetch a mid first rounder ? Really? Ainge ALREADY offered the Sixers that Nets pick for Okafor. He did it BEFORE the lottery. And that was when a very real chance existed to get Simmons or Ingram. He sure as hell would give it up today. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[adp98]

Burrs, I would like to see a package of Okafor and the Sixers late picks for #3 and a Bradley. If C's would make that deal, and I think they might, get it done. Sixers might need to throw something else in because those picks at 24 and 26 aren't that attractive to Boston given how many picks they already have coming. I'm open to ideas. The idea of just getting a pick doesn't do much for me. It's a two person draft. Even if you got 3 I don't see much difference between 3 and 8 in this draft. It's all about fit and need at that point (Note, I'd want Murray). The players are pretty even after the big two.

 

[adp98]

ADP. Jesus Christ. Stop. He can fetch a mid first rounder ? Really? Ainge ALREADY offered the Sixers that Nets pick for Okafor. He did it BEFORE the lottery. And that was when a very real chance existed to get Simmons or Ingram. He sure as hell would give it up today. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Zero chance Ainge offered the Nets pick before the lottery for Okafor straight up, zero.

 

[gldendog]

Zero chance Ainge offered the Nets pick before the lottery for Okafor straight up, zero.

Oh ok so Ainge wouldn't trade Jamal Murray or Kris Dunn straight up for Okafor when he's already got 20 guards?

Please remove yourself from this conversation. Okafor is EASILY a top 3 prospect if he's in this draft. Maybe even #1.

 

[adp98]

I"m telling you what you posted never happened. I could see Ainge now giving up 3 for Okafor. I think he would try and get a little more. I don't see Dunn or Murray as being a huge return. However, I'd do it just to get rid of Okafor. I'd rather have a player thrown in and give up a bit more. We pretty much agree. However, Ainge wasn't offering that pick before the lottery.

 

[gldendog]

I"m telling you what you posted never happened. I could see Ainge now giving up 3 for Okafor. I think he would try and get a little more. I don't see Dunn or Murray as being a huge return. However, I'd do it just to get ride of Okafor. I'd rather have a player thrown in and give up a bit more. We pretty much agree. However, Ainge wasn't offering that pick before the lottery.

In a span of minutes you went from fetching a late lottery to mid first round pick to maybe getting a top 3 pick?

 

[Burrs5]

Oh ok so Ainge wouldn't trade Jamal Murray or Kris Dunn straight up for Okafor when he's already got 20 guards?

Please remove yourself from this conversation. Okafor is EASILY a top 3 prospect if he's in this draft. Maybe even #1.

Okafor isn't above Simmons, probably not Ingram in my book, but he's no worse than three in this draft. So, that's why I believe that #3 alone isn't enough.

For the Sixers my preference with multiple picks would be.

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Dunn
4. Murray
5. Heild

 

[Burrs5]

In a span of minutes you went from fetching a late lottery to mid first round pick to maybe getting a top 3 pick?

Nodding....

 

[Burrs5]

I"m telling you what you posted never happened. I could see Ainge now giving up 3 for Okafor. I think he would try and get a little more. I don't see Dunn or Murray as being a huge return. However, I'd do it just to get rid of Okafor. I'd rather have a player thrown in and give up a bit more. We pretty much agree. However, Ainge wasn't offering that pick before the lottery.

This is great......Already laying the ground work that acquiring the #3 pick wouldn't qualify as a "huge" return. And who said they needed a huge return anyway? Why can't they get a good or fair return and everyone be happy?

Also, wasn't the Sixers who shot down that possible trade deadline deal? How do you effing know what was offered? The thought was that the Sixers didn't want to lose Okafor for a pick that could have potentially fell between 5-7.

 

[Burrs5]

Also, the portrayal that he s this bad kid and terrible defensive player are just a bit overstated by individuals with an agenda. I get that, tho.

https://thesixersense.com/2016/02/21/jahlil-okafor-bad-defender-fact-fiction/

 

[Burrs5]

I'm confused.....

According to ADP Okafor won't bring back a huge return (who said that? Define hufge? Kevin Durant? Ok, we agree). But he will get you....

-A middle of 1st RD pick, or maybe a backend of the lottery pick in this draft, or the #3 pick (But with a that's nothing really that great anyway tone).

Why the hell is going on here?

 

[adp98]

This is great......Already laying the ground work that acquiring the #3 pick wouldn't qualify as a "huge" return. And who said they needed a huge return anyway? Why can't they get a good or fair return and everyone be happy?

Also, wasn't the Sixers who shot down that possible trade deadline deal? How do you effing know what was offered? The thought was that the Sixers didn't want to lose Okafor for a pick that could have potentially fell between 5-7.

Who are you getting at 3 in this draft? This is my point. Murray is not a huge return (i do like him). Dunn is a point guard who can't shoot. Bender? Just because the pick is high means it's huge. Otto Porter, Ben McLamore, you guys paid any attention to the recent NBA drafts? We tanked an entire year and we're supposed to be happy about Okafor or any of these guys? Get the best return you can get. Sixers swung for the fences and missed as they got unlucky and drafted the wrong guy. I'm fine with a double. Don't be confused and think the trading the third pick in last year's draft for the third pick in a two man draft is some huge deal. I'm not even sure Ainge would do it straight up today. Given Boston's plethora of picks and guards I think there is a deal there to be had. Find a way to get something done but I'd rather get some established NBA players than another 18 year old who might or might not be any good. We all agree, a fair return is great. For accuracy here are the #3 picks the past ten years. Not a great return. 1 stud, and one borderline stud in the group.

Last 10 years here are the #3 picks in the draft:
Okafor - Too soon to tell
Embiid - bust
Porter - not great
Beal - good player could be a stud
Kantor - good player
Favors - good player
Harden - stud
Mayo - Bust
Horford - very good player
Adam Morrison - complete bust

 

[gldendog]

Who are you getting at 3 in this draft? This is my point. Murray is not a huge return (i do like him). Dunn is a point guard who can't shoot. Bender? Just because the pick is high means it's huge. Otto Porter, Ben McLamore, you guys paid any attention to the recent NBA drafts? We tanked an entire year and we're supposed to be happy about Okafor or any of these guys? Get the best return you can get. Sixers swung for the fences and missed as they got unlucky and drafted the wrong guy. I'm fine with a double. Don't be confused and think the trading the third pick in last year's draft for the third pick in a two man draft is some huge deal. I'm not even sure Ainge would do it straight up today. Given Boston's plethora of picks and guards I think there is a deal there to be had. Find a way to get something done but I'd rather get some established NBA players than another 18 year old who might or might not be any good. We all agree, a fair return is great. For accuracy here are the #3 picks the past ten years. Not a great return. 1 stud, and one borderline stud in the group.

Last 10 years here are the #3 picks in the draft:
Okafor - Too soon to tell
Embiid - bust
Porter - not great
Beal - good player could be a stud
Kantor - good player
Favors - good player
Harden - stud
Mayo - Bust
Horford - very good player
Adam Morrison - complete bust

Not too soon to tell on Embiid?

 

[adp98]

Not too soon to tell on Embiid?

No, a guy who hasn't played in two years ans had 3 stress injuries is a bust. Maybe he defies every big man who has ever had these types of injuries and becomes a great player. He's one injury from greg oden. What is his upside at this point? A guy who plays 60 games? He couldn't play 30 games in college let alone bang for the next 10 years in the nba. Let's hope he can become a servicable backup or give us 50-60 games per year over the next two years. Set the bar really low and you won't be disappointed. Anything we get from him is gravy.

 

[Burrs5]

Who are you getting at 3 in this draft? This is my point. Murray is not a huge return (i do like him). Dunn is a point guard who can't shoot. Bender? Just because the pick is high means it's huge. Otto Porter, Ben McLamore, you guys paid any attention to the recent NBA drafts? We tanked an entire year and we're supposed to be happy about Okafor or any of these guys? Get the best return you can get. Sixers swung for the fences and missed as they got unlucky and drafted the wrong guy. I'm fine with a double. Don't be confused and think the trading the third pick in last year's draft for the third pick in a two man draft is some huge deal. I'm not even sure Ainge would do it straight up today. Given Boston's plethora of picks and guards I think there is a deal there to be had. Find a way to get something done but I'd rather get some established NBA players than another 18 year old who might or might not be any good. We all agree, a fair return is great. For accuracy here are the #3 picks the past ten years. Not a great return. 1 stud, and one borderline stud in the group.

Last 10 years here are the #3 picks in the draft:
Okafor - Too soon to tell
Embiid - bust
Porter - not great
Beal - good player could be a stud
Kantor - good player
Favors - good player
Harden - stud
Mayo - Bust
Horford - very good player
Adam Morrison - complete bust

Again, who has used the phrase huge return? No one!

Furthermore, players that are extremely young aren't finished products. We have no idea what will come from any of these guys. They aren't finished products. We could go back in time and insert names like Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, etc before they were drafted and talk about what they can't do. Stop writing and closing books on kids who have been in the league for ten minutes or not even drafted yet.

 

[gldendog]

My hope is that the odd growth spurt he had in the last couple yrs screwed with the healing of the foot. They were caught off guard by it. The operating doctor said had they anticipated that could happen they would've done the bone graft during the first surgery. He's gotta be done growing now at 22 yrs old. Perhaps these injuries were a by-product of his explosive movements at an absurdly large size while his bones were still expanding. What the hell do I know, I'm no doctor but this is something that's been alluded to by surgeons. We will see.

 

[NickleDimer]

lots of Embiid brightsiding here. Let's agree to write him off as a total loss and be pleasantly surprised if he plays a meaningful minute in the NBA.

 

[Anarchy99]

Adp has more positions than the very well like presidential candidate Hillart Clinton. If there's a map, rest assured he's all over it.

 

[BettyHester]

ADP, here you go....

One, Okafor isn't a four, he's a FIVE. Anyone with a brain understands this.

they tried him at the 4 last year because noel's defense is so much better at the rim. okafor at the 4 is a persistent refrain from some of his apologists

if porzingis was a complete robot who did nothing but shoot 35% on 3s off the catch, and rebound/block shots at the rate he did as a rookie, he'd be much better than okafor

okafor isn't useless, he's worse than that. he demands concession and the wrong kind of sacrifice from everyone in the operation. same way iverson did, except for the playing hard, not being as good, and being at a position where defense is much more critical

gdog came at me all gangbusters for saying towns was better than noel in the summer of 2014. now he's saying enes kanter was the key in a playoff series for a team that has durant & westbrook

adams is a goon who bears no resemblance to okafor. neither does the tim duncan of the last decade, or bogut, or bosh, or cartwright, or tysone chandler, or anyone, really, except--very superficially--shaq & hakeem. and obviously you (maybe even gdog) understand the difference between those two, and this sharone wright jr mah****a

 

[BettyHester]

No, a guy who hasn't played in two years ans had 3 stress injuries is a bust.

not only is he still a better pick than everyone picked after him, he's a better pick than at least one of the people who went before him

aaron gordon is a decent player though

 

[Burrs5]

JG, what do you mean he demands consession and the wrong kind of sacrifice? Perception or inside info?

 

[SnottieDrippen]

There aren't many trades which are straight up just one player for a draft pick (for a soon to be upcoming draft that year or on the night of the draft)

Teams just don't like to do it. It's very often just a bad PR move. Depriving your fanbase of a fresh new face/hope is just stupid when you can trade something established a year later (like okafor). If Okafor goes away in the summer I think it will be some stupid Colangelo short sightedness involving the kings or lakers pick rights

 

[SnottieDrippen]

JG, what do you mean he demands consession and the wrong kind of sacrifice? Perception or inside info?

He means teammates have to defer to him on offense in order for him to be effective, not ego.

 

[BettyHester]

you sacrifice ball movement, pace etc to let him get to his spot, stare at his guy, and, yes, most of the time, beat him

and then on the other end you either have a guy who is really good at guarding both ballscreens & the rim chasing otto porter around pin downs, or a guy for whom closing out on a corner 3 is like time travel guarding otto porter

noel is a more willing passer than okafor, and from what i've seen he has better vision. he's better than most big guys as a diver off ballscreens. he is not going to become an average shooter, but he can catch the ball at the elbow and reverse it or go into a dribble handoff. he can dribble with his left hand quickly into modern basketball shit

if you pair him with simmons, your foot speed at the 4 and 5 is the absolute best in the league in a league that's about playing fast and guarding teams that are playing fast. noel isn't a great rebounder but simmons on the defensive end very nearly is. simmons has a 6'10 wingspan at 6'10 but i'm pretty sure iguodala is 6'6 with a 6'6 wingspan and defends ok

okafor is carmelo minus 3s, and to belabor the point yet again, at a position where guarding the rim is job one

and saric should not influence their decision. none of the players they have should--the only one who's better than simmons isn't real

 

[TheJoker203]

I think a draft of Simmons, Bembry, and Thon Maker would be a nice 1st round haul. You let the roster shake out and have the cream rise to the top, and try and get some veteran depth at guard. With Embiid and Saric, you have a nice stable of assets if they can get on the court and show some value.