NBA Playoffs
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NickleDimer
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So your version of this is that MJ thought he would burn through the minors in no time flat and become an MLB star? He was that stupid?
Not sure what he believed, but an egomaniac and one of the greatest athletes ever probably had him thinking he could do anything.,
Not surprised with all the Simmons devotees on here that the Simmons line on this is accepted as fact.
Jordan excelled in large part because of his drive. He clearly had no equal after the third title and took teams that -- at least for the first threepeat -- weren't really all that talented aside from him to titles. The series with the Suns and Barkley (his good friend and closest to Jordan in terms of star power/career peek at that point) was much anticipated and a good series, but won with relative ease. There was no real competition on the horizon then--anyone think the Rockets would've beaten the Bulls with Jordan playing as he was? I don't.
Wasn't hard for me to believe that the same drive just wasn't there at that point, he was somewhat burnt out. Plus, even then he was making way more from endorsements than salary.
Maybe he was getting too into gambling in part out of boredom and wanted to step away and take on a new challenge or shake things up for that reason, among others (diminished drive at the time), but I tend to really doubt that it was imposed by Stern.
Jordan excelled in large part because of his drive. He clearly had no equal after the third title and took teams that -- at least for the first threepeat -- weren't really all that talented aside from him to titles. The series with the Suns and Barkley (his good friend and closest to Jordan in terms of star power/career peek at that point) was much anticipated and a good series, but won with relative ease. There was no real competition on the horizon then--anyone think the Rockets would've beaten the Bulls with Jordan playing as he was? I don't.
Wasn't hard for me to believe that the same drive just wasn't there at that point, he was somewhat burnt out. Plus, even then he was making way more from endorsements than salary.
Maybe he was getting too into gambling in part out of boredom and wanted to step away and take on a new challenge or shake things up for that reason, among others (diminished drive at the time), but I tend to really doubt that it was imposed by Stern.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I was just thinking the same thing - like a WEEK AGO. Between this and the first round, Silver should make the adjustments. This is just dumb.
NickleDimer
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How much did Jordan make playing baseball? Were the white sox the only team interested? Reinsdorf still paid him his basketball salary?
Probably he was bored in the end in that it was so easy for him to dig them out of that hole. Probably got there because he didn't see the Knicks as a real threat. Worries about dealing with John Starks and that Knicks juggernaut obviously weren't enough to keep the fires burning.
Jordan was pretty much doing whatever the f--- he wanted to to stay interested at the time, gambling or otherwise. Around the time the "Jordan Rules" came out Rick Reilly had a good SI article talking about how Jordan would get pulled over doing 110 on the shoulder coming home from practice. (And given he was MJ and not Jayson Werth, he gave the cops an autograph instead of going to booking.)
This has to be one of the better threads on BW in the past few months. It's all over the place.
Television dictates this. Companies pay a lot of money and unfortunately are going to have some say. Not ideal, but not the end of the world either. The NHL playoffs started three days before the NBA and both are going to end within a few days of each other.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
The Bulls weren't even the #1 seed in the 93 playoffs. They were 1-3 vs. the Knicks in the regular season. And then went down 0-2 in the playoffs to them. And in game three, Jordan shot 3 for 18 but got bailed out by a stellar Pippen. I don't think he was "bored" with them and didn't see them as a threat. And Starks was 2nd Team All-Defense that year.
I remember watching the NBA regular season then and it meant as much as it does now... pretty much nothing. Some games were exciting especially as a kid (Sixers games with Pistons in late '80s/early '90s were always exciting, but Knicks were never on that level, they had Ewing and played in MSG, sure).
Pippen was very good that year but I always had trouble getting too carried away with praise for Pippen's offense when he got so little defensive attention and could just operate 1-on-1 at worst at all times (sort of like Kobe during the Shaq title years in LA). He was very solid and in his prime could lead a playoff team as he showed when MJ was gone playing baseball, but no one would be mentioning him as a top 50 guy all time if he didn't happen to play with Jordan almost his whole career.
Pippen was very good that year but I always had trouble getting too carried away with praise for Pippen's offense when he got so little defensive attention and could just operate 1-on-1 at worst at all times (sort of like Kobe during the Shaq title years in LA). He was very solid and in his prime could lead a playoff team as he showed when MJ was gone playing baseball, but no one would be mentioning him as a top 50 guy all time if he didn't happen to play with Jordan almost his whole career.
NickleDimer
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So does Michael Jordan have such "ferocious drive" and is Mr. ULTIMATE COMPETITOR? Or is he the type of guy that tanks regular season games and playoff games? Can't have it both ways... unless you're exercising your revisionist history muscles.
Sure I can... MJ had to carry those first three Bulls teams on his back (with occasional scoring help from Pippen as the years wore on), so he knew he had to pick his spots. He'd lost in the playoffs enough to know that's all that mattered. He didn't want to go max effort all regular season and go out like the New York Rangers after winning whatever the NBA's "President's Trophy" is, he just wanted titles.
His second go-round, with more of a supporting cast with Rodman, Kukoc and others, and his fire back regular season domination was on the menu, just to say he did it.
His second go-round, with more of a supporting cast with Rodman, Kukoc and others, and his fire back regular season domination was on the menu, just to say he did it.
NickleDimer
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I'd love to hear your theory on how he just happened to take games off against the best team in the conference. You think he'd relax against the lousy teams. I guess he's just such a genius competitor that he and Phil plotted this psychological tactic after one of their legendary morning Yoga/golf/gambling sessions.
No theory -- the Bulls were the best team in the NBA so could take a night off any time. They were two-time defending champs by '93 and had beaten the Knicks in the playoffs in prior years, so no fear or mystery with the Knicks. Nothing to prove in regular season games designed to vacuum up cash.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
The hurdles people will jump through to defend a guy none of us can honestly say we can remember on a night to night basis.
i watched every sixers game without my eyes leaving the screen in 2011 and can barely remember one play from most of the games. Sure, they didn't mean as much, but they were also 4 years ago.
So, I tend to trust the stats. And this from 538 is pretty good when it comes to LeBron and Jordan:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...nk-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/
Clearly Jordan had some of the best supporting casts ever 96-98. But he also was able to win with really bad ones in 91 and 93. 92 was above average. Judging from that, in my opinion if LeBron can win 2 with the poor supporting cast he has in Cleveland, he has to be considered 1B to Jordan's 1A, but that's a big if.
i watched every sixers game without my eyes leaving the screen in 2011 and can barely remember one play from most of the games. Sure, they didn't mean as much, but they were also 4 years ago.
So, I tend to trust the stats. And this from 538 is pretty good when it comes to LeBron and Jordan:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...nk-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/
Clearly Jordan had some of the best supporting casts ever 96-98. But he also was able to win with really bad ones in 91 and 93. 92 was above average. Judging from that, in my opinion if LeBron can win 2 with the poor supporting cast he has in Cleveland, he has to be considered 1B to Jordan's 1A, but that's a big if.
NickleDimer
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Lmao. That was a good year actually. Dating a redhead, still in peak athleticism, no credit card debt. Late 13/early 14 was my moment on the brink
NickleDimer
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Give Snottie credit - he packed up his CoL shit and moved to a genuine city to make his bones without knowing too many people here. Seems to be the best decision of his life so far. At least one of them. Took some stones. Full marks. Good man.
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NickleDimer
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G-dog, you are amazing. Right after posting the guy re-injures his knee.
Missed opportunity for Cavs last night. Lebron basically at his peak, Kyrie played very well, and Curry/Thompson were ordinary at best. Now Irving could be done or at least less than what we saw last night. Long layoff, rust factor, big stage factor favored Cavs last night. Perfect spot for lesser team to steal a game. They just couldn't finish the deal.
I'll never count the team with the best player totally out, but it won't surprise me if the rest of the series is anti-climatic and last night was pretty much the apex of the series.
It was a great game.
I thought the Cavs needed last night just to lose in six. I'd be surprised if it gets past five now and NDs pic is certainly in play.
I'll never count the team with the best player totally out, but it won't surprise me if the rest of the series is anti-climatic and last night was pretty much the apex of the series.
It was a great game.
I thought the Cavs needed last night just to lose in six. I'd be surprised if it gets past five now and NDs pic is certainly in play.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
NickleDimer
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He's fulfilling the destiny that we (excluding Billy King) always thought he'd have. To be an important role player on a title contender.
I know he had 44 and I didn't see any of the game before the last 5 minutes of regulation, but can't help but feel LeBron came up small in crunch time. Definitely solid D by Iguodala on him late, but would've liked to have seen him get better and more shots in the last 10 minutes of action (I know he made a three late too). Way too much deferring to teammates, like the white stiff inside who aside from one dunk was just not getting it done -- wasted possessions. LJ needs to demand the rock. And the shot he took at the end of regulation with the chance to win was weak -- a guy who some think should be in the same convo as Jordan as GOAT needs to cash that one and pull out the win.
Yea, but they needed him and James pretty much playing at peak level while Curry/Thompson were only ordinary. GS is clearly better, with or without Irving.
Lebron was rather terrific last night. I agree that he/they need to get a better shot at the end of regulation. Not sure that was all on in, as I thought the play took too much time. He didn't get the ball until there were 7-9 seconds left. Should of gotten it at 13-15 and given himself more time to create, maybe draw the double and have him find an opener shooter. This has been their bread and butter throughout the playoffs. I know they wanted the last shot, but sometimes the best shot comes before the final seconds and you have to live with it.
Yea. I think career-wise he's more than just a role player, but no better than a third option during his prime years. He can help teams win without scoring a lot. There is always value in that.