Peyton Manning to retire - official
- Thread starter qwe015
- Start date
It was nice to see Tommy break Montana's record as the best touchdown thrower of all time, but I cared more about tommy winning his 19th postseason game than the individual touchdown record.
But hey, I will take the congratulations. I worked hard for that record. Pat myself on the back!!
But hey, I will take the congratulations. I worked hard for that record. Pat myself on the back!!
Yes because Brady is in a much better system than Manning ever was, always had the better coaching, as much as I hate to say it. Also, you get pressure on Brady, he folds. Most of his career was spent sitting back in the pocket without much pressure. I still think Brady is a bit overrated but I have to give him credit where it's due, however, he still has not won a Super Bowl in 11 years. That is a long damn time. If he losses to the Colts, he is no better than Manning this year.
Only among the most die hard jets fans.
Heck, colts and Denver fans conceded Brady's superiority years ago. Only the greenest if green bloods have hung in it their Brady hate enough to claim manning was better.
The brady haters claim Brady was a system guy, but Brady made his teammates better. Just ask Wes welker.
Brady has underperformed over the last decade. That doesn't mean that he's not better than PFM. If Brady has underperformed, hasn't PFM really underperformed?
Brady front loaded a ton of success. A SB this year ices him as the best QB of all time.
Brady front loaded a ton of success. A SB this year ices him as the best QB of all time.
Not a Patriot fan but this is ridiculous. He's been to 5 Super Bowls and is probably going to a 6th this year. Manning went to 2 Super Bowls. His numbers are ridiculous and he's an all time great but Brady's numbers are ridiculous as well, so the playoff results have to be considered to separate them and in that aspect Brady is light years ahead. Manning has lost early with some really really good teams, and his receivers are better than Brady's and probably were better for most of the years that they've both been in the league (unless you don't think Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, D. Thomas, etc. are not good).
Brady has had a fantastic career. I have enjoyed it very much. 3 Super Bowls, 5 conference championships, 19 post season wins, the most touchdowns of all time, best win%.
Of all the athletes whose careers I have watched, Brady May have been the most productive. No complaints at all, just a pleasure to watch his career.
But this thread is not about Brady, this thread is about Peyton manning. Of all fantasy quarterbacks, mannIng may have been the best. Fantasy football doesn't go into January, so the fantasy football players have different criteria for gr8ness than I do. But I will concede, manning was a gr8 fantasy qb.
Of all the athletes whose careers I have watched, Brady May have been the most productive. No complaints at all, just a pleasure to watch his career.
But this thread is not about Brady, this thread is about Peyton manning. Of all fantasy quarterbacks, mannIng may have been the best. Fantasy football doesn't go into January, so the fantasy football players have different criteria for gr8ness than I do. But I will concede, manning was a gr8 fantasy qb.
I don't know if P. Manning is retiring, but watching him throw the ball with zero zip today reminded me what Roy Halladay looked like at the end. Sometimes it just goes that quickly.
With that said, P. Manning is the 5th or 6th best ever.
With that said, P. Manning is the 5th or 6th best ever.
People who say that Brady is a system quarterback, could you please describe this "system" and how it makes him look better than he really is? And if he's a system quarterback, why aren't a bunch of other teams with average qb's also using this system? And why do offensive players that leave the patriots immediately stink when they go to another team and why do people that come to the patriots instantly turn their career around? Seems more people should do this whole system thing. Brady's pretty lucky that no other quarterback/team have realized that he's just playing a system and anyone can do it and have this success.
So now we count what if's as Super Bowl wins? BTW, Manning went to three Super Bowls, he is 1-2 in them. If you are going to ding Manning for choking for entire career, you have to ding Brady for also choking over the past 10 plus years. You can't have it both ways. I said I give Brady the edge over Manning.
Brady almost never does well with pressure, the times the Pats won the Super Bowls, he was rarely touched. Knowing the other teams plays helps. They haven't won one since and Brady completely choked the season they went unbeaten during the regular season. They only scored 14 points against a team they were favored by 12 points over. Can't be argued, he blew it in that game.
Brady may have more playoff victories but I would take both Joe Montana and John Elway over him. Brady has had an excellent career but in my eyes, he is overrated for sure but I also put Manning in the overrated bucket. To say both of them are not overrated is complete ignorance.
Brady almost never does well with pressure, the times the Pats won the Super Bowls, he was rarely touched. Knowing the other teams plays helps. They haven't won one since and Brady completely choked the season they went unbeaten during the regular season. They only scored 14 points against a team they were favored by 12 points over. Can't be argued, he blew it in that game.
Brady may have more playoff victories but I would take both Joe Montana and John Elway over him. Brady has had an excellent career but in my eyes, he is overrated for sure but I also put Manning in the overrated bucket. To say both of them are not overrated is complete ignorance.
He also had to face Drew Brees in the Super Bowl post Hurricane Katrina. Brady was able to face a QB who was throwing up in the huddle. Also, let's not forget to the BS tuck rule which enabled the Pats to make the Super Bowl when they played the Raiders in the AFC title game. Luck worked with Manning and Brady in their careers. If Brady chokes this season, he will drop a couple pegs.
This is how I rate tom Brady:
19 playoff wins
most touchdown passes of all time (real ones)
5 afc titles
3 super bowls
highest win % ever
the best football player that I have had the pleasure of watching during my days as a football fan
nit sure how that is "overrated". Looks rated appropriately to me.
Discuss....
In the last 10 years, he has not gotten it done, when it counts the most. 14 points against the 10-6 Giants, seriously Clarke? Being 18-0 and losing in the Super Bowl because you could not get more than 14 points against a decent team is not choking?
If you are saying Brady is the best ever NFL QB, than I say overrated for sure. If you are saying he is one of the best four or five all time, I can agree to that.
I love the arguments against Brady being the GoaT because he chokes in the SB. He's still GETTING there. And when he loses he loses by a matter of inches
Elway? Is this not a choke?
Superbowl 1986 - 1TD, 1 INT, 19pt Loss
Superbowl 1988 -- 1 TD, 3 INT, 32pt Loss
Superbowl 1989 - 0 TD, 2 INT, 108 passing, 45 Loss
When manning gets there, he gets blown out. Just like Elway. At least Elway scrounged up 2.
Elway? Is this not a choke?
Superbowl 1986 - 1TD, 1 INT, 19pt Loss
Superbowl 1988 -- 1 TD, 3 INT, 32pt Loss
Superbowl 1989 - 0 TD, 2 INT, 108 passing, 45 Loss
When manning gets there, he gets blown out. Just like Elway. At least Elway scrounged up 2.
Do you even know any facts before you type? Manning won one as well and went to three. By your logic, Joe Montana should be in front of Brady because he never lost a Super Bowl. We don't count Brady''s recent chokes against the Ravens in the playoffs. I am not trying to kill the guy, he is a great player but you ass kissers force me to bring up the real facts.
Elway was still a great QB, great at extending plays and cannon of an arm. Those 80s SBs were during a period where the NFC was vastly superior. But those Denver teams that won had T. Davis and a pretty good defense too.
+ Denver was subsequently exposed as cheating on salary cap during those
years.
Brady is not the greatest passer I've ever seen and he can't run at all, but his record speaks for itself and he has gotten his teams to win throughout an era that is considered a parity era where you can no longer have dynasty type teams. And while not the greatest passer he is a damned good passer and probably underrated in the way he is able to hit players in stride on short and medium throws. And he makes gr8 decisions and seemingly even better ones under pressure. Manning seems to get a little shaky in the playoffs, that's been evident more than just today, which had at least some physical contribution.
+ Denver was subsequently exposed as cheating on salary cap during those
years.
Brady is not the greatest passer I've ever seen and he can't run at all, but his record speaks for itself and he has gotten his teams to win throughout an era that is considered a parity era where you can no longer have dynasty type teams. And while not the greatest passer he is a damned good passer and probably underrated in the way he is able to hit players in stride on short and medium throws. And he makes gr8 decisions and seemingly even better ones under pressure. Manning seems to get a little shaky in the playoffs, that's been evident more than just today, which had at least some physical contribution.
Brady lost to the Ravens in the afc championship a couple years ago. True. Brady also lost a pair of Super Bowls in late 4th quarter game winning drives by the better of the mannings. It happens.
But he has also won 19 post season games, and 5 conference titles, and 3 super bowls and thrown more playoff tds than any other QB you have ever seen. So deal with it. You have never watched anyone better, which is where you should rate him.
But he has also won 19 post season games, and 5 conference titles, and 3 super bowls and thrown more playoff tds than any other QB you have ever seen. So deal with it. You have never watched anyone better, which is where you should rate him.
When did I ever say manning hadn't made it to 3 SBs (which is 2 fewer than both elway and Brady). Manning lost his 2nd appearance by 2 Tds. He lost his 3rd SB by like 40 or something.
Joe Montana is definitely in front of Brady -- right now. If Brady wins this year, it'll be hard to argue that Montana is better given the record and the stats from those games.
From the QB position, it has to be Montana. Brady is great and top three or four QB that I have seen play. I am probably older then you but not whitecat, YA Tittle old. HAHA but no, I rate Brady over Flacco, Favre and Romo. Favre was pretty damn good though, just did not do it as consistently as Brady. I still think, as much as I hate to say it, that Bill Belichick deserves a lot of credit. He is a nasty kind of guy but maybe that's what makes him such a great coach.
How many full games did you actually watch Montana play? 10? 20? 1980's pre-satellite television era. You have probably watched more tom Brady post season games than you have complete Montana games in your life. You are judging some of these guys off highlight reel memories, whereas with brady you saw it all, the good the bad and the ugly. But you never saw anyone win more than him.
He is the only one I would give credit to your argument, so who are the other two or three guys you are putting ahead of brady?
He is the only one I would give credit to your argument, so who are the other two or three guys you are putting ahead of brady?
For the simple fact that you made a dumb, incorrect statement. "When manning gets there, he gets blown out". He won a Super Bowl, the last time I checked, when your teams wins a Super Bowl, you did not get blown out.
Plus, I don't know how you can say that Brady did not choke against the Giants, how can anyone say this? An unbeaten team, 12 point favorites and he is only able to mustern14 flipping points? Is that not a choke? Montana never lost a Super Bowl so he will always be better than Brady.
If somehow, the Pats lose to the Colts, that will be a massive choke and Brady will take a huge hit for it, it cannot be denied.
Just so were on the same page. Who had a better career:
4 Super bowl appearances, 4 wins.
6 Super bowl appearances, 4 wins.
Are we penalizing QBs for winning their conference? Calling it a choke in a game that his peer couldn't get to (presumably because he had choked earlier in the playoffs)? Wish we hadn't gotten to the 1971 NCAA championship game so we could have a perfect record in championship games.. Sucks being .500.
10, 20 games of Montana? Are you 30 years old or something? I have watched plenty of games with Montana. The Niners were always on TV during their Super Bowl runs. That's the thing, Brady has basically had two careers, the early years when the Pats were cheating and surprising people and the later years when they were the favorites every season but instead choked. The funny thing is, you always like to rail on Peyton Manning but the second part of Brady's career is a mirror image of Manning. A lot of big stats, huge number of touchdowns, big fantasy numbers and no Super Bowl titles. Maybe Brady is better when the expectations are less? It's funny how you changed your tune. You sound like an old Cowboys fan, touting the five rings they had in the 70's and 90's. For Brady's sake, I kind of hope they win it this year. Not a big Hawks fan. I honestly never had anything against Brady, seems like a good guy.
If Brady loses this year to the colts, will it be as much if a hit when Montana lost to the bills when he was Brady's age in the afc championship for the Chiefs?
And what would be a bigger hit: losing to the colts, or losing to the Seahawks/packers in the bowl. You are apparently one of those who punish the QB by winning conference championships.
And what would be a bigger hit: losing to the colts, or losing to the Seahawks/packers in the bowl. You are apparently one of those who punish the QB by winning conference championships.