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plenty of baseball left but I would no be too pleased with these first couple of hamels starts. It's the argument for trading him in the off season. Good news it it will not take a whole helluva lot for teams to shift back to buy on him. Maybe 3-5 good starts at some point. But if i am the Phils, I jump on that when it unfolds. I would have no problem with them setting the market early. He's not going to be part of the solution here. Cut the money and get a return of some sort.
 
Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
plenty of baseball left but I would no be too pleased with these first couple of hamels starts. It's the argument for trading him in the off season. Good news it it will not take a whole helluva lot for teams to shift back to buy on him. Maybe 3-5 good starts at some point. But if i am the Phils, I jump on that when it unfolds. I would have no problem with them setting the market early. He's not going to be part of the solution here. Cut the money and get a return of some sort.
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I don't think he's throwing the ball that badly. Location is off and all of the solo HRs is a bit quirky too me. Read a Jim Bowden piece today that had him rated the #1 trade piece available and his comments were promising that teams will come calling. He specifically mentioned how team friendly his contract is when compared to a couple of recent signings and what is to come this offseason.

Making a few mistakes per game right now and is getting burned on them. In-between he's throwing the ball ok.
 
Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
plenty of baseball left but I would no be too pleased with these first couple of hamels starts. It's the argument for trading him in the off season. Good news it it will not take a whole helluva lot for teams to shift back to buy on him. Maybe 3-5 good starts at some point. But if i am the Phils, I jump on that when it unfolds. I would have no problem with them setting the market early. He's not going to be part of the solution here. Cut the money and get a return of some sort.
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I don't think he's throwing the ball that badly. Location is off and all of the solo HRs is a bit quirky too me. Read a Jim Bowden piece today that had him rated the #1 trade piece available and his comments were promising that teams will come calling. He specifically mentioned how team friendly his contract is when compared to a couple of recent signings and what is to come this offseason.

Making a few mistakes per game right now and is getting burned on them. In-between he's throwing the ball ok.
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Maybe you're right - but the ball always looks good coming out of his hands. He's just that kind of pitcher. But, he's giving up the long ball a lot, not a great K-BB ratio (for him anyway) and nowhere near vintage. He's not that far oof but he is indeed off by a fair amount - an amount good enough to ward off taking on 90M. Baring some disaster, I expect him to be tradeable - I just don't love the way he's looked so far if I want a decent return.
 
Can definitely pitch better. His normal velocity is there, though. The Nats squared up four balls tonight. Two went for solo HRs to guys that really shouldn't beat him, but to their credit they connected on fastballs. One on the first pitch of the game and the other on a 2-0 pitch. The other two soundly hit balls were a Werth 2B over CF head and Zimmerman did a good job of going the other way for a 2B down the RF line to score two. The third run was BS. Struck Harper out, but ump missed the pitch and called it ball four. Harper coaxed a balk after bitching twice and Ramos bled one over infield to bring him in. Ran a few deep counts, but I thought he had solid stuff, but little luck. Doesn't really start seasons well anyway.
 
If you take away his record vs. the NL East, Hamels is a career.500 pitcher. There is an argument to be made he feasted on a bad division and thus inflated his numbers. As for the Phillies, there was no good from keeping him. His value only goes down from here. That was the problem with keeping him despite folks attempting to argue otherwise. More guys will be available and he wasn't going to pitch better.
 
As long as he doesn't get hurt his value won't go down. His contract is extremely friendly when you consider what has started and what is coming down the road on that front. Bowden, who I'm pretty sure is clued in more than you, basically said the opposite what you just did. As an example, Boston just had a week's worth of starters getting hammered. They don't have a single pitcher as good as Hamels. If that keeps up and they continue to hit then they'll be coming back near the deadline, if not before.

Just as a reminder, but last year Hamels started year on DL. Didn't pitch until 4/23. In his first three starts he threw 16.2 innings, yielded 24 hits, 13 ER (7.02), had a K-BB ratio of 14-7. His ERA didn't dip below four until June 6. The slow starts aren't something new here.,
 
Yep, and near the deadline 5 more pitchers will be available. The Red Sox have already proven they aren't giving Betts or their catching prospect so what? They'll just grab another pitcher who can be had for much less. Hamels value will only keep going down. The Phillies continue to be years late in making the moves needed. No unbiased person can defend Rubens moves or better yet lack of said moves. Complete disaster.
 
BTW, I have to take a moment to give a quick tee ball update. My 4 year old decided he wanted to play this year and we had our second practice last night. My little guy smoked all 4 of his AB's into the outfield. He's barely bigger than the tee but kid's a stud, complete natural. Coaching him has been one of the more fun experiences of my life. Kid loves it. Saturday the tee ball Nats go for their first win vs. the hated Yankees. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated.
 
The Phillies can be criticized in a lot of areas, but in terms of just giving Hamels away they're not. You're just flat out wrong about that.
 
No one argued they should give him away. Silly response. The argument is when his value get the best return and at what point have the Phillies stunted their development by holding guys too long. They have butchered the later. We'll see on Hamels. To state otherwise suggests you know the future.
 
I wasn't crazy about the risk of holding him through the off season and I am still not crazy about that. I'm not in the room so i I wont pretend to know the return they could have gotten, but on the surface of it I am not sure the upside outweighs the risk.
I dont expect him to be the best available arm on the market at the deadline. Maybe near that, but not the best.
 
Was at Cavanaugh's last night and one of the bartenders was talking about Cole. I take all bartender stories with a grain of salt, but this one seemed like it made sense.

The bartender was working at a bar near Chinatown at the time (circa 2012) when Utley and Victorino stroll in after a game. They would not stop bitching to each other about how much they hated Cole and just were fed up with him.

Cole is notorious for ripping on his teammates when they make errors so this doesn't surprise me. Also wouldn't be shocked if bartender was exaggerating.
 
Gr8 scoop! Queeny Hamels is a huge whiny douche. We couldn't tell by the way he pouts on the mound.

I would like to see the kind of offers that they turned down for him this offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if they were mostly crap.
 
Well, there is a bit of a difference here. One, the Phillies didn't move on from Rollins, Howard, Utley, etc because they didn't want to and didn't feel their window had officially closed in 2013 and last year. See, you probably don't understand that when you have some success and you're selling out 43K every night for three years that it's sometimes difficult to let go of that. It was inaccurate thinking, but one can understand it when you live through the great times that core gave the organization during this time. Again, you wouldn't understand this being new fan of that team in DC. Who by the way seem to be doing everything right according to you and still haven't won a playoff series. YAWN.

Anyway, they're trying to move Hamels right now, but obviously haven't found something to their liking. Totally different then saying we feel we can still contend like in the past. It's not the same.

He'll be one of the better arms leading up to the deadline and under team control at a reasonable number. Will he be the top arm? Who knows? But he'll be one of them and their will be more than one team looking to add a quality arm for the stretch drive.

See, neither of you lived through Curt Schilling and Cliff Lee who they gave away for peanuts. That mistake can't happen again. I have read many talking head utter the same thing.
 
They have about 2 months before this piece of fruit turns. Utley is the much better asset.
 
Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
They have about 2 months before this piece of fruit turns. Utley is the much better asset.
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Utley is a better asset than Hamels? How so?
 
Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
They have about 2 months before this piece of fruit turns. Utley is the much better asset.
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Utley is a better asset than Hamels? How so?
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Because Utley can still hit a little bit and everyone in the league has pitching these days.
 
And he plays a position where a lot of teams are weak, doesnt make THAT much money, and if doesn't play a lot, teams have the option to move on from him if they choose to.
 
Originally posted by NovaNation1188:

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
They have about 2 months before this piece of fruit turns. Utley is the much better asset.
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Utley is a better asset than Hamels? How so?
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Because Utley can still hit a little bit and everyone in the league has pitching these days.
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Boston has enough pitching right now? They probably need two starters to be WS contenders. I'm sure teams will have guys go down, too.

It it really doesn't matter to me. If they going to trade him for stuff not that appealing then just keep him. Don't make a trade just to make a trade.
 
Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
I wish the Mets would make a move for Utley. Perfect fit for them.
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His knees are an issue. Can't see him outperforming Murphy this year in any category.
 
Originally posted by NovaNation1188:

Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
I wish the Mets would make a move for Utley. Perfect fit for them.
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His knees are an issue. Can't see him outperforming Murphy this year in any category.
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So, he won't outperform the likes of Daniel Murphy (I might agree with this), but he's a better asset than Cole Hamels. Got it.
 
Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
He's a much better baseball player than Daniel Murphy. Bad knees and all.
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Here are some O/U to choose from that we can compare at the end of the year.

Murphy will bat .280 this year
Utley will bat .245 this year.

Murphy will hit 15 homers.
Utley will hit 13 homers.

Murphy will make 15 errors this year (he's actually made about 5 very strong defensive plays this year that have helped the Mets win games).
Utley will make 12 errors this year.

Utley won't play more than 125 games this year.
Murphy won't play under 150 games this year.

Utley was done once the juice ran out.
 
I'd rather take a blind kick to the sac than watch this team play baseball.

It's literally going to be YEARS before this franchise is good
again. 2020. Maybe.
 
Originally posted by Helen&HouseDicks:
I expect a World Series in 2016 now.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
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That will be sooner than you making any kind of contribution around here. Be it actually funny or informative. You're neither. Bring back cherryhilltaxguy or whatever the hell you used to be, but do something soon, because this is getting embarrassing for you at this point.
 
Even Gdog jinx can't fix this team. They're going to be bad for a while. No current players. No farm. Top 10 highest payroll for the foreseeable future. Things are only going to get worse before they get better.
 
Originally posted by NovaNation1188:
Even Gdog jinx can't fix this team. They're going to be bad for a while. No current players. No farm. Top 10 highest payroll for the foreseeable future. Things are only going to get worse before they get better.
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I almost feel sorry for Phillie fans. However, each time I get close I remember they don't have fans besides the ones who hop on the bandwagon when they have their run a few times every 20 years.

This post was edited on 4/18 7:11 AM by adp98
 
Most sports franchises are not the Yankees. If your team has won a title in the last 10 years or so, it doesnt owe you anything in my opinion. As a Met fan, I 've been through what the Phillie are going through WITHOUT having won anything - I'd sign up for this exchange 10 times out of ten.

Lot of whinny Yankee fans here in disbelief they could go three years straight with no playoffs. (Three!! ) Well, you made the post season basically 20 years straight - TWENTY FRIGGIN YEARS - just STFU for a while.
 
Adp, I want to make sure you know that I've been a phils fan long enough to watch games in 3 different home parks, Connie Mack, the Vet, and CBP. You can use lots of adjectives to describe philly fans, bandwagon ain't one of them.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by tomdudes:
Adp, I want to make sure you know that I've been a phils fan long enough to watch games in 3 different home parks, Connie Mack, the Vet, and CBP. You can use lots of adjectives to describe philly fans, bandwagon ain't one of them.
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This. Except the Connie Mack part. I'm a fan and always have been thou the highs and lows.

Anyway, the Phillies stink, but i'm looking forward to another Nats Collapse when it counts. Their starting pitching is awesome and will carry them, but after 200 IP in October and quality opponents in front of them it becomes less advantageous. Their average defense, inconsistent offense, and now below average bullpen will tear it's ugly head again.

The he highlight of last night's game for me was another Ian Desmond error.
 
Second base is absolutely not the need for the Mets. Murph, Flores and/or Herrera all solid choices and as good or better than Utley. What they really need is a real shortstop, they should move one of the surplus 2B, but for a SS not another second baseman,
 
Originally posted by tomdudes:
Adp, I want to make sure you know that I've been a phils fan long enough to watch games in 3 different home parks, Connie Mack, the Vet, and CBP. You can use lots of adjectives to describe philly fans, bandwagon ain't one of them.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
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Tom, the joke we had after my wife's grandfather died was there goes the last Phillies fan. He was buried with his cap. I'll amend the statement as there are some gr8 Phlllies fans, they all happen to be over the age 55.
 
Originally posted by adp98:

Originally posted by tomdudes:
Adp, I want to make sure you know that I've been a phils fan long enough to watch games in 3 different home parks, Connie Mack, the Vet, and CBP. You can use lots of adjectives to describe philly fans, bandwagon ain't one of them.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
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I'll amend the statement as there are some gr8 Phlllies fans, they all happen to be over the age 55.
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Yet, another inaccurate statement.
 
Let's be fair to bandwagon fans, Nats need to win something first and people need to stay through the end of playoff games. Baby steps here in DC.
 
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