this is like the forest fire that keeps reigniting from glowing embers. I will just give you both a cap tip for persistence and winning the "getting the last word in" award.
NBA Playoffs
- Thread starter NovaHoops2002
- Start date
There is not an analyst on earth who would agree that Michael Jordan was the reason the 94 Bulls won 55 games in a season in which he didnt play one minute for them. Not one.
What I meant was that playing with Jordan and winning three titles with him enhanced the games of a lot of these guys. Past titles and experiences on that stage, all the while being led by the greatest competitor ever, had to have a carryover effect in some form. If expressed like that, then yes some would agree.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
Mea Culpa for what?
I'll tell you that right now. If CLV wins then I can't ever recall a star player having less around him than James this year. Again, no need to teach my the obvious.
However, that doesn't mean he's not getting help. You don't defend a team like GS this well without everyone buying in. It just wouldn't happen. Geez, Steph Curry is the MVP of the league and M. Delly has reasonably neutralized him. That has to count here. Others are making contributions in other areas. It all matters and shouldn't be so easily dismissed.
Furthermore, pulling this off would be a nice shiny feather in James' cap, but still not enough to push him pass Jordan, IMO. But he has more years left and more time to add additional feathers.
Sometimes all-time greats have a signature moment. What we're seeing just might be James'.
Kerr has to recognize that the Cavs are hell-bent on taking away Curry's game at the perimeter. He showed late in the game what he's capable of. As Burrs said, Delly and Co. are doing everything possible - ball denial, multiple switching, fighting over screens, double-teaming at the 3-point line. They are also defending K. Thompson very well from 3 (.321).
Exascerbating the problem is that GS is very guard-oriented in their scoring. David Lee did give them good minutes in G3 (13 points), but it's not like he and Speights will start scoring a ton of points down low with LeBron's help speed and Mozgov & Thompson guarding the rim. D. Green's terrible game was also a factor. For a 7-footer Bogut is almost useless.
For GS to win Curry will have to take over the offense and truly lead - dribble penetration, getting to the rim and the line, interior dishing for easy scores, and finding open shooters on kick-outs who can knock down some 3s.
It won't be easy, because to adp's point LeBron is quarterbacking the Cavs in the half court perfectly. He's slowing tempo, limiting possessions for both teams and slowly building leads. He's also getting people like Green into foul trouble. And the transition game for GS, which was a huge source of points for them all season, is non-existent.
Exascerbating the problem is that GS is very guard-oriented in their scoring. David Lee did give them good minutes in G3 (13 points), but it's not like he and Speights will start scoring a ton of points down low with LeBron's help speed and Mozgov & Thompson guarding the rim. D. Green's terrible game was also a factor. For a 7-footer Bogut is almost useless.
For GS to win Curry will have to take over the offense and truly lead - dribble penetration, getting to the rim and the line, interior dishing for easy scores, and finding open shooters on kick-outs who can knock down some 3s.
It won't be easy, because to adp's point LeBron is quarterbacking the Cavs in the half court perfectly. He's slowing tempo, limiting possessions for both teams and slowly building leads. He's also getting people like Green into foul trouble. And the transition game for GS, which was a huge source of points for them all season, is non-existent.
After the missed dunk the other night I'm not sure we see too much more of Speights. I do think Lee can see more time. In fact, starting him and moving Barnes to the bench isn't the worst thing they can do. Lee isn't a great defender, but is bigger than Barnes. Put Green on James to start and just tell Lee to keep Thompson off the glass. On offense, Lee is playmaker at the high post. He can roll to the basket and make a pass to the corner.
Just curious why dont they double team Lebron at the top of the key and make him get rid of the ball. They allow him to stand there and run clock and then clear out so he can drive the lane for an easy bucket or foul. Worse they back off and let him take a wide open three. On TV there were times when several cavs werent even on the screen. They were so far from Lebron and the lane. Kerr is a great coach so tough to question him maybe some of the resident experts can give an explanation
Burrs good point on Lee he brings a different element to their line up in terms of scoring and passing.
Burrs good point on Lee he brings a different element to their line up in terms of scoring and passing.
Cleveland is putting Lebron in two key spots: left foul line extended. They spread the floor with shooters to you cannot just run a double at him. He's too good a passer. This is part of the conundrum. Lebron is the best passer in the league. So if you show too early he will kill you. Thus, they usually bring a weakside big (you cannot double him with small guys because he's too big/strong) from the block if he goes toward the hoop. They will let him shoot 18 foot jumpers as that's where he's least efficient. The other spot is at the top of the key. Sometimes they screen with a little shooter. They do this because GS cannot switch onto to him with a little, specially Curry because Lebron will just steamroll him. So they hedge and would rather allow the shooter to get an open jumper. Shumpert and Matthew D each buried a few late in game 2 on this play. So what do you do? It's not as if there are easy answers because you're dealing with the single largest mis-match in NBA history. You have a guy that size of a power forward, with the quickness of a wing and passing ability of the best guards who have ever lived. You can't just run doubles at him because he's too smart and will find the open man. So they are coming later or living with him shooting jumpers. You have to pick your poison.
Don't bench Green. Bench Barnes. I think some things opened up for the with Lee in the game. Now, maybe it was just a coincidence and won't continue, but after so many struggles in the first 3 games it's probably worth a shot.
The answer for GS is to be better on offense. Their defense really hasn't been the problem. James is taking a ton of shots and only hitting at a 40% clip. As a team they are 39.6% for the series so far. These are all numbers you can live with. CLV killed ATL from the arc and most of it was James finding open shooters off a double-team. And to their credit them guys knocked them down at a very good rate. They made 49 threes in the four games vs ATL.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
How about that sh*thead behind the back turnover by Curry last night? Most pathetic crunch time play by a reigning MVP in the Finals?
I feel like Lebron would just draw a million fouls if double teamed.
I feel like Lebron would just draw a million fouls if double teamed.
Wasn't everyone pretty "content" with Mozgov's play for the Knicks? No one thought he'd be a star but he looked like a good, skilled athlete and a guy who would play for a long time. Completely disappeared in Denver - just another thing that makes you question that organization
Curry's was bad. I have a feeling Shumpert was started to get a little high off the opiates they gave him for his shoulder - some bonheaded plays by him late as well.
I think the Warriors are doing fine defensively overall. Lebron is scoring, but not at an uber efficient rate - and you'd rather he take contested 2s than one of their capable perimeter guys shoot wide open 3s. Warriors just need to figure out O.
After getting a hard fought offensive board, only down 4, absolutely brutal, particularly given that green can't hit 3's right now. Getting the ball to him in that spot was pointless. Lebron goes down and nails a 3. Effectively ended the game.
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
It was a crazy second half. The Cavs had like 7 blocks, built a 18 point lead, p*ssed it away, and GS still couldn't get out of their own way. I'm enjoying the hell out of the NBA playoffs this year. I found myself wanting to get on the refs about the Cavs rough D, but there wasn't anything too egregious - it was just my emotional reaction to the Warriors impotent offense.
I like the Warriors tonight. Think we get a Game 4 effort reminiscent to the one displayed at Memphis in Gm4 when down 2-1. They're due to get off to a good start for once in this series and Cleveland is eventually going to be fatigued playing such a short bench. I could be wrong I'm just not sold Cleveland can sustain this balls out defensive effort playing 6.5 guys.
Also not sure why they waited until being down 20 in Gm3 to start giving a seemingly healthy Lee more minutes than Speights. He's an infinitely better player overall. Lee forces the defense to defend from more spots on the court than Speights does for Lee can take you off the dribble and Mo cannot. Lee also makes opposing bigs have to spend more energy on the boards, he's much more active on the glass than Speights.
Lebron. Might win it if they lose.
You must shut the TV off at halftime and after the games. The talking heads can't get enough of the defense this team has played so far.
I still think GS is going to find a way here. I am just happy that we are back to the long overdue 2-2-1-1-1 way of playing this series -- hated the 2-3-2. Lot more intrigue tonight with the new format. I think CLE is in a must win tonight.
I can see the must-win angle for CLV, but it's pretty much a definite must-win for GS, too.
ADP, win this series and he gets closer for sure. Still will have more to do, though.
And you have me pegged all wrong on Jordan. He's not really my boy. As basketball fan I look at all of the facts and believe he is the GOAT. Now, James is still in the process of collecting facts and if he ever gets to a point where the numbers say he's better, then I will say so. Ibreallybdont care who ends up the GOAT.
ADP, win this series and he gets closer for sure. Still will have more to do, though.
And you have me pegged all wrong on Jordan. He's not really my boy. As basketball fan I look at all of the facts and believe he is the GOAT. Now, James is still in the process of collecting facts and if he ever gets to a point where the numbers say he's better, then I will say so. Ibreallybdont care who ends up the GOAT.
LeBron's VORP through this year's playoffs is a healthy 2.2 - he is dominating but not like others we've seen.
Bird '84 was 2.2
Magic '87 was 2.0
Jordan's Championship years '91-'93, '96-'98:
2.8
2.7
2.5
2.1
2.2
1.6 / Pippen 1.6
Wade '06 2.6
Duncan '03 2.6
Bird '84 was 2.2
Magic '87 was 2.0
Jordan's Championship years '91-'93, '96-'98:
2.8
2.7
2.5
2.1
2.2
1.6 / Pippen 1.6
Wade '06 2.6
Duncan '03 2.6
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I never want to hear jeff van gundy's voice again. I would pay double for cable without color commentary.
Did anyone else own this dvd? Best NBA related production i've ever owned: NBA Ultimate Player
http://www.amazon.com/NBA-Ultimate-Player-Will-Lyman/dp/B000056PNI
http://www.amazon.com/NBA-Ultimate-Player-Will-Lyman/dp/B000056PNI
He's been terrific. Arguably, their best player in series so far. Has done a admirable job on James for the most part.