Yep because of people like you who drew conclusions based on speculation, prejudice and hearsay. His supporters didn't nominate him for sainthood. He was one of the most successful college football coaches of all time. He accomplished that without dirty recruiting, or academic fraud. He imposed discipline on his players for their missteps. His players graduated with degrees. They weren't abused by the PSU program for its aggrandizement and profit. That is what his legacy is based on. No one ever claimed he was a saint or was Mother Theresa. People want to expand the basis for his legacy because they want something to criticize him for so they can tear down his legacy.
Penn State Cover-up worse than expected
- Thread starter GSleas
- Start date
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
You don't need to be a saint or Mother Theresa to ACT when it becomes obvious that Chester Molestor is raping boys in the shower.
An underling like McQueary panicked, but at least he reported it. Paterno should have been outraged. He should have said to the AD and the President that Sandusky had better not set foot on the premises EVER again. Period, end of story.
The lack of judgment is appalling. Paterno was the most powerful, influential person at Penn State for decades. Yet he deferred to a bunch of idiots who couldn't even get him to discuss his retirement plans. All because they wanted to protect the image of the University.
What a goddamn disgrace.
vuscratch said he didn't have a dog in this fight. That is f*cking rich.
What if Mike Nardi walked in on Baker doing something weird in the shower with a young boy?
Nardi panics, calls his father, then they decide that they'd better say something.
They have a meeting the next day and Nardi reports the incident to Jay. He doesn't get into graphic detail, but he makes it clear that what he saw was WRONG on many levels.
Jay calls Mark Jackson and Father Peter who respond that "we'll take care of it."
Then NOTHING HAPPENS.
Should Jay then:
a) Do nothing, with the rationale that "they said that they would take care of it," and wash his hands of the matter, or
b) Ask the AD/President what the f*ck is going on, and demand accountability?
Again, we are talking about the head coach, the FACE of the program who has a tremendous amount of power and influence, not a fifth tier assistant. Someone who can make things happen with a simple phone call.
What would Jay have done in that scenario? And don't give me the lawyer bullshit about "we can't speculate about what he might or might not have done." Knowing what you know about Jay, what do you think he would do? What would his moral and ethical responsibility be to those defenseless, innocent victims?
I was absent the day they taught law in law school, but since I have common sense, the answer is obvious about what he SHOULD do. And if he failed to act as Paterno did, there would be a shitstorm of outrage, and rightfully so.
Nardi panics, calls his father, then they decide that they'd better say something.
They have a meeting the next day and Nardi reports the incident to Jay. He doesn't get into graphic detail, but he makes it clear that what he saw was WRONG on many levels.
Jay calls Mark Jackson and Father Peter who respond that "we'll take care of it."
Then NOTHING HAPPENS.
Should Jay then:
a) Do nothing, with the rationale that "they said that they would take care of it," and wash his hands of the matter, or
b) Ask the AD/President what the f*ck is going on, and demand accountability?
Again, we are talking about the head coach, the FACE of the program who has a tremendous amount of power and influence, not a fifth tier assistant. Someone who can make things happen with a simple phone call.
What would Jay have done in that scenario? And don't give me the lawyer bullshit about "we can't speculate about what he might or might not have done." Knowing what you know about Jay, what do you think he would do? What would his moral and ethical responsibility be to those defenseless, innocent victims?
I was absent the day they taught law in law school, but since I have common sense, the answer is obvious about what he SHOULD do. And if he failed to act as Paterno did, there would be a shitstorm of outrage, and rightfully so.
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Yep.
And I like the "People like you....." No. It's not 'people like me', It's people like the ones who were molested and have come forward saying Paterno knew. Hell, even Joe himself, when finally exposed said "I should have done more"
Lastly, isn't his 'clean program' legacy kind of a myth as well?
From just before the sandal :
In a “special investigation” done by Sports Illustrated and CBS News on crime and college football, Penn State was tied for 4th with 16 players charged with crimes heading into last season. The investigation, which was done only on teams ranking in last year’s preseason Top 25, examined how many players on each team had criminal records at the start of the 2010 season. Pittsburgh topped the rankings with 22 players followed by Iowa, Arkansas, Boise State, and Penn State.
This is hardly the first time in recent years that Penn State, a football program built upon the rock-solid values of Joe Paterno and the “Success With Honor” mantra, has been mentioned for players getting in trouble with the law. I’m sure everyone remembers this famous “Outside The Lines” piece that aired on ESPN in July 2008, which exposed the numerous off-field transgressions in the past decade involving Penn State players. While that piece aired during an especially bad stretch of arrests, 16 players with criminal records on such a young 2010 roster indicates that some players still can’t avoid trouble with the law.
Seems to me his "legacy" is pretty crappy all around.
This shows why lawyers are needed because without some one to impose standards and rules to evaluating guilt and innocence emotion, bias, prejudice and agendas in stead of facts and reason take over the process. The lynch mob public makes judgement based on bias, prejudice, distortion, emotion, hatred and lies.
Paterno did the right thing. He did the only thing within his authority. Those above him may or may not have. The facts are unclear and incomplete on that. The standard he held himself to was not too low. Hw was a football coach not the President of a university, or Mother Theresa. It just wasn't up to what people like you looking for someone to blame find acceptable. If he wasn't the famous PSU football coach, Joe Paterno, this criticism would have ended years ago.
I am not sure how anyone with NO AFFILIATION to the University could defend Paterno at this point. Not that I think he should be defended at all, but you get my point.
He was paid millions of dollars to be the supposed leader of the football program, and he wielded a tremendous amount of power and influence over the entire University.
The AD and President went to his house to try to coax him into talking about retirement, and he threw them out.
Again, what does that tell you about who was running the show and making the decisions?
He did the bare minimum and nothing else which even he admitted was wrong.
Yet you continue to defend him. I don't need a tutorial about the justice system. I get that he never faced a jury of his peers and he had a right to due process.
But that is not the issue. He needed to step up and do the right thing, and he didn't do enough. And it happened because all anyone cared about was protecting the image of the university, and not about doing what was right.
Jay would report it to Father Peter. Father Peter would confer with Nova's council. They would evaluate their responsibilities and probably report it to the authorities, assuming the victims did not object to that. If they did object, they would probably hire investigators to determine the validity of the claims. If they were valid they'd fire the coach. If they could not be substantiated they have a problem. Yes you can fire without cause but that will generate litigation you may loose when it's based on unproven allegations of misdeeds by the employee rather than on employee performance. That problem would be more difficult at a state sponsored university.
You guys have missed a curious fact. The allegation is that Paterno reported an allegation in 1976. In 1977 Sandusky was promoted to both LB and DB coach. So was this because PSU concluded there was no basis for the allegations in 1976? It is unlikely that they'd promote him if they couldn't fire him but didn't want him.
When Paterno himself says he could have done more, and the 'more' would have been preventing more kids from getting raped, can we really say "Paterno did the right thing"?
I could almost get the logic had Sandusky been fired and the horrors of the Second Mile happened off campus. But that is not what happened. He was told, on what now appears to be a number of occasions, and he barely lifted a finger, and he let the rapist continue to use his facilities. Saying he 'did the right thing' may not be as bad as baboo saying "in all fairness the 'kids' were older, like 12 or 13" - but it's pretty bad. Just continues to amaze and sicken me that people will keep searching for reasons to protect Joe Paterno.
I could almost get the logic had Sandusky been fired and the horrors of the Second Mile happened off campus. But that is not what happened. He was told, on what now appears to be a number of occasions, and he barely lifted a finger, and he let the rapist continue to use his facilities. Saying he 'did the right thing' may not be as bad as baboo saying "in all fairness the 'kids' were older, like 12 or 13" - but it's pretty bad. Just continues to amaze and sicken me that people will keep searching for reasons to protect Joe Paterno.
And what if after all of that happened, nothing else happened? And Jay continued to see the assistant coach prancing in and out of the facilities?
At some point wouldn't a reasonable person ask the question: "Hey Vince, hey Padre... what's the latest on that investigation? I'm a little uncomfortable about the fact that our assistant coach continues to have access to our facilities. These are some very serious and troubling accusations. Why is he still around? Shouldn't we make sure that the kid is OK?"
Again, we are talking about the head coach here. Not a flunkie, not a low level assistant whose job it is to be seen and not heard.
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The weirdest thing about Penn State people defending Paterno is that they can't see the most obvious thing: the more they defend him, the worse the school looks.
It's over. No amount of semantics in the universe will ever make Paterno seem good to anyone outside of PSU. Just cut your losses and hope that if you can admit he made mistakes, the University can once again be seen in a good light. After 4 years, the defending hasn't worked. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em
It's over. No amount of semantics in the universe will ever make Paterno seem good to anyone outside of PSU. Just cut your losses and hope that if you can admit he made mistakes, the University can once again be seen in a good light. After 4 years, the defending hasn't worked. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em
NickleDimer
Post 'Til Your Fingers Bleed
I disagree. The worst thing about them defending Paterno is that they can't separate sports from real life.
Are there any OJ apologists out there? Would like to ask them for some insight on JoePa supporters.
I wish JoePa had the guts to face his accusers and the facts instead of taking the easy way out. A true coward in every aspect.
There are apparently court papers from settlements going back to the 1970s. But I'm sure Paterno never knew about it.
This is one of the sickest stories involving pedophelia in history. It was going on for years and so they could win a few football games, they just allowed it to fester.
This is one of the sickest stories involving pedophelia in history. It was going on for years and so they could win a few football games, they just allowed it to fester.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8c8b...president-decries-new-joe-paterno-allegations
Paying people off in 1971. Joe Knew
Paying people off in 1971. Joe Knew
If you're the coach, and your guy comes to you with that story, don't you tell him he needs to contact the police??
Going to the AD or President of the university screams cover-up immediately. Straight line to the police...concurrent notification to the university authorities.
Going to the AD or President of the university screams cover-up immediately. Straight line to the police...concurrent notification to the university authorities.
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Not saying it's right because it isn't, but in the 70's (And before the 70's and probably after the 70's) this type of thing was looked upon much differently than it is today. There was a time when family members would find out a child was molested by another family member or priest and not tell anyone. Yea, in 2016 that sounds dumb, but sadly that's how it was at one time in this country.
Burrs yawn'd these allegations 5 years ago. Now he's saying people in 1975 didn't know raping kids was wrong.
I was banned by the PSU Board moderators long ago for submitting information which proved that Joe knew in 2002 when he benched 2 starters, and a third player, for making crank telephone calls to Sandusky's house.
There is no question that Joe knew and that what he permitted to persist was as incomprehensible as it was immoral. He lost far more than wins, or his pristine reputation, in the process.
Obviously, the mere thought of resurrecting the statute is irrational in the extreme. .
However, comparing Sandusky's crimes to the Holocaust or Columbine is another bizarre dimension of feigned political correctness and misplaced hyper over reaction.
The massive NCAA financial penalties and baseless scholarship restrictions, which penalized the then current players and others who were in no way involved with Sandusky related crimes, were the product of a warped sense of justice, and a self serving desire to appear holier than anyone who ever wore a Penn State jersey, ring, or who even attended a game on campus.
Somewhat similar to some of the comments posted in this thread.
Just making pregnant teen daughters disappear... nothing specific, but just like sweeping molestation under the rug.
I never YAWNED child abuse. Never! I think Joe PA knew way more than what was reported. I think they covered it up as best they could because of where they were, the clout they have, and the times they lived in.
The only thing I ever said in support of PSU is that people not involved should not be made to pay the price for those who were. That's it.
And I clearly said that's it wrong, but for whatever reason people across this country, in different places, chose to keep this stuff hush-hush at another time. We know it's wrong today and in hindsight it was wrong then, but it went on. I'm not sure why.
If you're going to be a jerk-off be one that gets my statements correct.
I don't think it's unreasonable to punish the university for covering this up. Yes, that affected players/fans who had nothing to do with it -- but they belong to penn state. Burrs would obviously disagree, but their fans say "WE ARE" -- even though they don't play on the team.
The insane cult following had something to do with this. Joe was getting blackmailed by Sandusky for all of his recruiting violations and covering his own tracks, this is just how the system played out. The penalties, in retrospect, seem like a slap on the wrist compared to the damages.
The insane cult following had something to do with this. Joe was getting blackmailed by Sandusky for all of his recruiting violations and covering his own tracks, this is just how the system played out. The penalties, in retrospect, seem like a slap on the wrist compared to the damages.
Those responsible for the cover-up should be punished to the highest degree of the law. If more evidence comes out on Paterno then his name should be dragged thru the mud and so forth. I do not believe that current coaches/players should lose their current opportunities. I don't believe all PSU fans are blind zealots, but obviously there are a significant amount. But knock yourself out, parade over to their board and put them in their place. Whatever floats your boat, dude.
5 additional years of bowl ban.
Remove all Paterno Wins.
penn state football operates at a 0 sum for the next 10 years. All profits go to various charitable organizations to help prevent child abuse.
Show that you won't put profit before child safety anymore.
No, JoPa's legacy is based on his defense coordinator ass raping young boys in the football lockerroom while JoPa sat idly by and knowingly allowed it to happen.
And when was the last time penn state was good at football? Pre-Big 10 days i would guess, as the Big 10 has kind of back fired on them.
I didn't compare what happened to Columbine or the holacaust. I threw out a hypothetical about defending monsters responsible for the heinous in the name of sports. That's what happened here.
penn state is STILL defending the 'allegations' , which really are no longer allegations - there are court settlements supporting the accusers. Their president is still unapologetic and making penn state and Paterno out to be the victims. For that alone, they am deserve the death penalty. In exchange, allow the kids to transfer penalty free. It's not a university or a fan base that deserves to have a program any longer. Too much horror has been done in the name of this program, without anyone currently involved willing to accept responsibility really. Shows they have not changed a bit. Shut it down. They've earned it.
Documented allegations going back to 1971. Sick bastards. It went in for 40 years. Jesus
penn state is STILL defending the 'allegations' , which really are no longer allegations - there are court settlements supporting the accusers. Their president is still unapologetic and making penn state and Paterno out to be the victims. For that alone, they am deserve the death penalty. In exchange, allow the kids to transfer penalty free. It's not a university or a fan base that deserves to have a program any longer. Too much horror has been done in the name of this program, without anyone currently involved willing to accept responsibility really. Shows they have not changed a bit. Shut it down. They've earned it.
Documented allegations going back to 1971. Sick bastards. It went in for 40 years. Jesus
When you create the narrative of Success With Honor, when you portray yourself, and by extension, your football program, as doing it "the right way" (as opposed to the Barry Switzers of the world), then, yes, people are going to come down on you even harder than if you were just a run of the mill head football coach when it's shown that you ignored something as heinous as child abuse.
For years, the PSU faithful would revel in how Paterno ruled his program with an iron fist. NOTHING got past him. If a player skipped class, Joe knew. If player got in trouble on a Saturday night, you called Joe, not the police. And, because the kid in question was always a "good kid" (Joe never recruited knuckleheads), Joe would make him run an extra set of gassers, or pick up trash at Beaver Stadium...that would always set the good kid back on the right path.
But, within this closed off environment, in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, rational people are supposed to believe that Paterno never heard whispers about Sandusky...no one ever raised an eyebrow at his behavior, or questioned his judgement. No, as long as Sandusky did his job, and kept Linebacker U rolling, all was well in Joe's world.
He didn't have time to worry about ol Jer and what people thought about him, or the rumors swirling around State College. He had a game to get ready for, and the defense better damn be ready to go on Saturday.
He knew. Of course he knew. And he ignored it until it was impossible to do so. Then he did the absolute minimum. And got ready for the next game.
Sick.
For years, the PSU faithful would revel in how Paterno ruled his program with an iron fist. NOTHING got past him. If a player skipped class, Joe knew. If player got in trouble on a Saturday night, you called Joe, not the police. And, because the kid in question was always a "good kid" (Joe never recruited knuckleheads), Joe would make him run an extra set of gassers, or pick up trash at Beaver Stadium...that would always set the good kid back on the right path.
But, within this closed off environment, in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, rational people are supposed to believe that Paterno never heard whispers about Sandusky...no one ever raised an eyebrow at his behavior, or questioned his judgement. No, as long as Sandusky did his job, and kept Linebacker U rolling, all was well in Joe's world.
He didn't have time to worry about ol Jer and what people thought about him, or the rumors swirling around State College. He had a game to get ready for, and the defense better damn be ready to go on Saturday.
He knew. Of course he knew. And he ignored it until it was impossible to do so. Then he did the absolute minimum. And got ready for the next game.
Sick.
I am not defending the PSU Administration. There is clear evidence that they were informed of allegations and they did have a responsibility to either report the alleged incidents to the police, or if the victim refused to go to the police to investigate it themselves if they were going to let Sandusky remain at PSU. The fact that victims do not go to the police is a big issue. This is true about alleged sexual abuse on college campuses. The victims do not want to go to the police but they want the schools to punish the alleged abuser without the benefit of a trial.
Either state legislatures by statute or colleges and universities as a group as a policy should require schools to report ALL sexual abuse/assualt allegations to the police and suspend both students pending the outcome of the investigation and trial, if charges are brought. University policies also should require that all allegation of sexual assault/abuse be reported to the BOT. Schools are not investigatory bodies and they are not courts. Alleged victims should not be permitted to force the schools to be either because they do not want to engage the police. Alleged abusers are entitled to a fair trial instead of a trial in the press or by what we already know are limp wrist university administrators.
Requiring all sexual assault allegations also would avoid allegations such as those against PSU regarding PSU senior officials burying allegations and not acting. The university officials should be criminally chargeable for not reporting all allegations to the police if they did not report them. If they report the allegations than the police whose skill and duty it is to investigate, the DA/SA whose skill and responsibility it is to prosecute cases when the evidence warrants prosecution and the courts whose skill and responsibility it is to assure that the defendant gets a fair trial, would be the decision makers not the limp wrist university administrators who have conflicts of interest.
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My point is that the evidence against Joe is not strong. He took the actions he was required to take and did what was within his authority. Giving people responsibility without authority is wrong.
Whispers are not evidence. They are more likely to be wrong or distorted than right.
No one answered my question: If Joe allegedly reported an allegation of sexual abuse of a child by Sandusky to the University officials in '76, why did PSU give Sandusky a promotion in '77?
While he was raping children, he was also helping penn state to back to back 11-1 seasons (77-78). Because football prominence is more important than child safety @penn state, they promoted the pedophile instead of risking losing their defense in 77.