NBA Free Agency

[gldendog]

There is a chance the Sixers don't play many games with any of the 3 guys you mentioned.

Why's that? Are they going to vanish into thin air? Well Embiid might, but he also might not. Okafor and Saric taking a mission to Mars with Matt Damon or something? If Okafor doesn't it will be because they actually parlayed him into something useful in the backcourt.

 

[gldendog]

1. The length of the contract isn't out yet, it would have to be 6+ years to get to 100m, so let's start with that. A 4-5 year deal seems more reasonable, but again we'll see when all is said and done. So there, you're just making stuff up.

2. Rose doesn't have to be elite - he's got one year to be an average point guard, distributing to 2 elite scorers. That's all, and he's got 1 year left on the deal so its no risk, just clearing other contracts.

3. If Rose is finished, and Jo sucks, how is that pick going to be 16-20? That implies the Knicks made the playoffs, something basically every Knicks fan would kill for right now.

4. In conclusion, my response didn't suck. Listen to Hinkie, try to acquire talent in other ways besides tanking.

Porzingis isn't an elite anything yet. He faded hard as the season wore on. He's some years away from being what he will be as he improves his conditioning and strength. This isn't a guy ready to be a superstar on a contender.

Why would you sign Noah for 18-20M a year if you think he might end up sucking?

The Knicks are clearly going vet heavy and trying to win this year. If they end up drafting high it will be because the moves they just made totally blew up in the their face. At which point they'll be trying everything to move on from Noah's money. Either way it's not good. You end up with a high pick, but an awful contract. Or you win some ultimately meaningless games and draft in a poor position. What's the end game here ?

 

[adp98]

Why's that? Are they going to vanish into thin air? Well Embiid might, but he also might not. Okafor and Saric taking a mission to Mars with Matt Damon or something? If Okafor doesn't it will be because they actually parlayed him into something useful in the backcourt.

Embiid hasn't played more than 25 games at any level ever. I'm not counting on him for anything. It's obvious they don't want Okafor and if they can get any value he''s not long for Philly either. I've hard Saric is coming over. Let me know when it actually happens. It's a clear demonstration of the fact none of these are sure things and tanking guarantees absolutely nothing. You can get away with that in Philly but it's tougher in NY. Certainly not for 3 years.

 

[adp98]

Unless I'm mis-remembering the CBA limits the FA deals to new teams to 4 years max.

 

[gldendog]

Embiid hasn't played more than 25 games at any level ever. I'm not counting on him for anything. It's obvious they don't want Okafor and if they can get any value he''s not long for Philly either. I've hard Saric is coming over. Let me know when it actually happens. It's a clear demonstration of the fact none of these are sure things and tanking guarantees absolutely nothing. You can get away with that in Philly but it's tougher in NY. Certainly not for 3 years.

Ben Simmons.

Also you're implying Philly is like Fargo, North Dakota or something. Philly is a large market with rabid sports fans. Are you saying New York fans are too stupid to understand what it really takes to build something ? The team has been trying to win for years and they suck. Maybe...try something else? That can't be sold or understood?

People are patient in Philly? Serious, Clark? I had no idea.

 

[Anarchy99]

Who would even want Melo? Maybe the Kings?

I doubt they could move him. Certainly not for very much on the dollar. There is no rebuilding package coming back for Melo, so might as well keep him and give this a whirl. I think they are done trading the picks. Hope so anyway.

 

[gldendog]

Of course it would be much harder to move Melo now that he's in the twilight of his career. Instead of doing it a couple years ago when it would've been prudent they decided to surround him with Amare Stoudemire, Aaron Afflalo, Jose Calderon and Robin Lopez instead.

 

[tomjackleman]

Porzingis isn't an elite anything yet. He faded hard as the season wore on. He's some years away from being what he will be as he improves his conditioning and strength. This isn't a guy ready to be a superstar on a contender.

Why would you sign Noah for 18-20M a year if you think he might end up sucking?

The Knicks are clearly going vet heavy and trying to win this year. If they end up drafting high it will be because the moves they just made totally blew up in the their face. At which point they'll be trying everything to move on from Noah's money. Either way it's not good. You end up with a high pick, but an awful contract. Or you win some ultimately meaningless games and draft in a poor position. What's the end game here ?

I said Elite scorer, not an elite player. Put some talented players around him, and lessen his defensive burden, and.....maybe he gets better offensively and less worn down as the season goes on. Noah accomplishes that to a T.

You don't sign him for 18-20m thinking he's going to suck, but if he does, you've got your first rounders coming up, and a rising cap, so might as well give it a shot at that price. If 18m for 4 is correct, you've got the first free agent in a long, long time who actually WANTS to come to play for the Knicks and is taking a massive discount to do it. It's being reported he turned down Max deals from good teams to play for the Knicks; he alone could help turn the culture.

Yes, they are trying to win this year, and doing it in a way that makes perfect sense, doesn't alienate the fanbase, and is responsible without dealing all their draft picks. What a world where that's criticized, and people are legit saying the worst franchise in NBA history is the model?

 

[gldendog]

For the record, if anyone's been paying attention, I've been beating the drum for the Knicks to start the hell over for at least 2 years now. This isn't Monday morning quarterbacking. They absolutely could've gotten a solid return for him then. They pulled a Phillies. It happens. Finally the Phillies gave in too. The Knicks are refusing to be realistic.

 

[TheBigRagu]

Gotta love gdog dismissing a rookie who was actually productive and efficient on both ends of the court, while pumping up two players in Embiid and Simmons who have never played a single minute in an NBA game.

 

[gldendog]

Gotta love gdog dismissing a rookie who was actually productive and efficient on both ends of the court, while pumping up two players in Embiid and Simmons who have never played a single minute in an NBA game.

No one is dismissing shit. Zinger is going to be a very good player. He's just not elite yet in any one area. He will be. He isn't yet. And he's one f*cking guy: Surrounded by a bunch of fading corpses. The Sixers have a handful of building blocks. Knicks are doing Zinger a disservice, they just don't know it yet. They will. When they're trying to figure out how to surround him with players he can actually grow with around the time his contract is about to expire.

 

[adp98]

Ben Simmons.

Also you're implying Philly is like Fargo, North Dakota or something. Philly is a large market with rabid sports fans. Are you saying New York fans are too stupid to understand what it really takes to build something ? The team has been trying to win for years and they suck. Maybe...try something else? That can't be sold or understood?

People are patient in Philly? Serious, Clark? I had no idea.

I'm saying Philly sports fans and New York sports fans are very different. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The market, scale and dollars involved are also different.

 

[gldendog]

I'm saying Philly sports fans and New York sports fans are very different. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The market, scale and dollars involved are also different.

Tell that to Sam Bradford when he gets bottles thrown at his head after his first incompletion this season. The difference between New York isn't tangible enough to be a talking point - certainly not when it comes to the patience of a fan base. This isn't hockey in Phoenix.

 

[gldendog]

Saying Philly sports fans and New York fans are "very different" is, in a word, moronic.

 

[adp98]

I'm saying the markets are very different. Go look at the cost of a comparable seat at a Knicks game vs. a Sixers game. Failure to understand the difference in economics between NY and the CoP is as you say, "moronic". Look at the metro region and difference in set tops etc...Philly is nothing compared to the CoDB and thus very different markets. Therefore, different decisions are made because the stakes are much different. The Knicks can't openly admit they are taking 3 years off and charge what they charge. You don't quite "get it" if fail to understand how these situations are different.

 

[tomjackleman]

I'm saying the markets are very different. Go look at the cost of a comparable seat at a Knicks game vs. a Sixers game. Failure to understand the difference in economics between NY and the CoP is as you say, "moronic". Look at the metro region and difference in set tops etc...Philly is nothing compared to the CoDB and thus very different markets. Therefore, different decisions are made because the stakes are much different. The Knicks can't openly admit they are taking 3 years off and charge what they charge. You don't quite "get it" if fail to understand how these situations are different.

If everyone but the Cavs tank, as GDOG suggests, does that mean no one tanks?

 

[gldendog]

If everyone but the Cavs tank, as GDOG suggests, does that mean no one tanks?

I dont suggest EVERYONE tank, just clearly hopeless situations like the Knicks who have been selling off the future to put fading vets around Melo for years, with terrible results. You gotta know when to fold the deck.

 

[tomjackleman]

In the East. They can't be beaten. Not next year. Not the year after. Unless Lebron gets hurt.

You said everyone in the East.

You're making up magical numbers, contradicting yourself within hours, and are all turned around.

There's ways to behave as a franchise in the NBA besides tanking. Accept it, and move on.

 

[obriend1]

Getting back to the point of the thread....

It looks like the Warriors are the team to beat for Durant. Which scares me as that means Barnes walks and most likely becomes a Sixer. Also saw that there are rumors they might throw Delly a 3 year deal worth between 8 and 10 a year.

Cannan not getting an offer was a solid move by BC. No more Cannan-ball from Zumoff ever again. Thank God.

 

[Burrs5]

DeRozen meeting with TOR tonight, might sit with four other teams afterwards, including the Sixers. I don't see him leaving TOR, which is fine.

TOR has also explored a trade for Noel. What exactly would they have to offer? Terrence Ross? No. Corey Joseph?

Heard Courtney Lee's name last night, too.

Whispers of a sign-and-trade with Barnes (Noel going ?).

Al Horford to meet with OKC. Whiteside & Conley with 12:01 meeting with Dallas.

 

[adp98]

I'll be very confused if we do a sign-and-trade involving Noel. What could Golden State be throwing in that's any value to Philly? Their 29th pick in the next two drafts? That makes zero sense.

 

[Burrs5]

I'll be very confused if we do a sign-and-trade involving Noel. What could Golden State be throwing in that's any value to Philly? Their 29th pick in the next two drafts? That makes zero sense.

Maybe, GS doesn't want to lose him for nothing. Maybe, the Sixers really want him. Maybe, Barnes is cool with signing with Sixers. A sign-trade would guarantee all that.

 

[bmoneynova]

who the hell is going to beat Golden State if they get Durant?

that is insane

 

[adp98]

Maybe, GS doesn't want to lose him for nothing. Maybe, the Sixers really want him. Maybe, Barnes is cool with signing with Sixers. A sign-trade would guarantee all that.

But if he's open to signing, what's in it for the Sixers to do the sign and trade? The Sixers don't need to do any sign and trades because they are a billion below the floor. The Warriors would need to be giving them something significant to give up Noel. Remember, this entire tank thing was to accumulate assets and salary cap space is something we have in abundance. There would need to be something significant also coming back. Most likely someone on the Warriors roster who makes a decent chunk of change. Who would that be?

 

[Burrs5]

who the hell is going to beat Golden State if they get Durant?

that is insane

On top of that it would be somewhat of a weak move by Durant, IMO.

Still think a 1-and-1 deal with OKC is most likely scenario.

 

[Burrs5]

But if he's open to signing, what's in it for the Sixers to do the sign and trade? The Sixers don't need to do any sign and trades because they are a billion below the floor. The Warriors would need to be giving them something significant to give up Noel. Remember, this entire tank thing was to accumulate assets and salary cap space is something we have in abundance. There would need to be something significant also coming back. Most likely someone on the Warriors roster who makes a decent chunk of change. Who would that be?

I don't know if anything else would be coming back. Again, I think it's an option to guarantee that the Sixers get Barnes. Maybe, GS matches without something in return. Not saying this scenario is imminent or anything. I just heard it during an update on radio.

 

[novabball2]

i really hope the Sixers do not sign Barnes. nice player as a 3rd option by no means a star.

id prefer for them to stink again and get two top 5 picks in a loaded draft for 2017. i hate to see them overpay and get killed by bad contracts. overpaying in free agency sets franchises back years. remember Elton Brand and Iggys max deals? killed them.

i dont want Courtney Lee, I dont want Derozen, Joseph or Ross.

go again with your garbage, see if Okafur improves, Embiid plays and can stay healthy. oh yeah and is good , considering he has had a basketball career of 6 months in college ann no pro experience. see if Simmons can really be effective with the ball in his hands and then draft accordingly in 2017. you are likely to have two top 5s.

 

[bmoneynova]

i really hope the Sixers do not sign Barnes. nice player as a 3rd option by no means a star.

id prefer for them to stink again and get two top 5 picks in a loaded draft for 2017. i hate to see them overpay and get killed by bad contracts. overpaying in free agency sets franchises back years. remember Elton Brand and Iggys max deals? killed them.

how many years in a row can you tank?

 

[adp98]

No one the Sixers sign on a 4 year deal will kill them. They are still going to suck the next few years. At some point you have to build something and develop a winning culture. Spend the money. No top players are going to come anywhere near Philly. So we have to overpay the next level. It is what it is so might just accept we'll have to overpay for guys who aren't stars. That's what happens when you make yourself a league embarrassment 3 years running in a league with loads of teams under a cap that is going up over the next two seasons.

 

[Burrs5]

how many years in a row can you tank?

Plus, it's not just that anymore. It's not back in the day where guys sign 6-8 year contracts that never end. They're basically 4 year deals now, tops. You need to spend a little to get to the floor. You need to have some vets to help develop younger guys. I'd prefer younger vets who could also grow with the rest of the team. If Ben Simmons is the real deal he'll be 23 in 4 years and ready to explode. A lukewarm Harrison Barnes at that time won't matter.

 

[Burrs5]

No one the Sixers sign on a 4 year deal will kill them. They are still going to suck the next few years. At some point you have to build something and develop a winning culture. Spend the money. No top players are going to come anywhere near Philly. So we have to overpay the next level. It is what it is so might just accept we'll have to overpay for guys who aren't stars. That's what happens when you make yourself a league embarrassment 3 years running in a league with loads of teams under a cap that is going up over the next two seasons.

Partially correct, especially towards top.

 

[adp98]

Come on, I nailed that one. Let's hope for some positive news over the next 48 hours.

 

[Burrs5]

Come on, I nailed that one. Let's hope for some positive news over the next 48 hours.

The funny thing is that there are two FAs that 100% of Sixers fans would agree on if they signed them. James and Durant. Well, that's obviously not happening, So, I expect tons of disagreeing.

 

[novabball2]

So we have to overpay the next level. It is what it is so might just accept we'll have to overpay for guys who aren't stars. That's what happens when you make yourself a league embarrassment 3 years running...

Kinda like what the Nats did with Jason Werth?

 

[novabball2]

I dont want the Sixers to tank, I want them to field a team of the following players:

Saric
Simmons
Embiid
Okafur
Noel

then whoever. see what you have. with those 5 guys healthy all year they still arent winning 20 games with the backcourt they have. so play them, lose, draft high again in 2017 (twice)

 

[adp98]

So we have to overpay the next level. It is what it is so might just accept we'll have to overpay for guys who aren't stars. That's what happens when you make yourself a league embarrassment 3 years running...

Kinda like what the Nats did with Jason Werth?

The two situations aren't similar but yes, they had to overpay Werth to convince players and fans they were serious about winning.

 

[Burrs5]

I dont want the Sixers to tank, I want them to field a team of the following players:

Saric
Simmons
Embiid
Okafur
Noel

then whoever. see what you have. with those 5 guys healthy all year they still arent winning 20 games with the backcourt they have. so play them, lose, draft high again in 2017 (twice)

Competent guards would help these front court guys develop better. Burnt all means give me more McConnell, Ish, Canaan, Marshall, Paul Pressey.....

Just relax and see what they do. The money is going to be outrageous because of the spike. Try not to get caught up in that. It's not a normal year.

 

[obriend1]

I want competent guards who can become role players as the team continues to add pieces. I'm a-ok with signing Crabbe and Gordon to 3 year deals worth 15 a year. Thinking about it, I'd even sign Delledova to a 3 year deal worth 24-28 million.

 

[gldendog]

You said everyone in the East.

You're making up magical numbers, contradicting yourself within hours, and are all turned around.

There's ways to behave as a franchise in the NBA besides tanking. Accept it, and move on.

Let's see what tune you're singing in a couple years regarding the Knicks vs Sixers.

 

[gldendog]

who the hell is going to beat Golden State if they get Durant?

that is insane

Uh nobody. Don't see it happening tho. They still play with just one basketball.