76"ers

[Ninetynine5.0]

burrs that's what I meant by 'ending up' with him. Should have been more clear. It's Hinkie - so of course I can envision some crazy circumstance where the Sixers and Okafor are together in some way at the draft - who knows how that eventually shakes out - so many teams with assets, CAP SPACE, needs and moving parts. I am expecting an utterly crazy draft week on some level. I just don't think they will end up with him as a piece moving forward long term.

 

[wcburrs87]

Originally posted by Ninetynine5.0:
burrs that's what I meant by 'ending up' with him. Should have been more clear. It's Hinkie - so of course I can envision some crazy circumstance where the Sixers and Okafor are together in some way at the draft - who knows how that eventually shakes out - so many teams with assets, CAP SPACE, needs and moving parts. I am expecting an utterly crazy draft week on some level. I just don't think they will end up with him as a piece moving forward long term.

100% in agreement here....


Also, as a sidenote, but look for some big name players to take 1-year deals this offseason with the pending spike in player contracts to come in 2016. Sure, some risk there if a player were to get injured, but I still think you'll see some of this.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:
Cwertz, just a little update for you buddy. Here are some of Noel's current rankings in the entire NBA.

Bocks - 7th (block % is also 7th)
Steals - 10th (steal % is 6th)

He is the ONLY player in NBA in the top 10 in both of these categories. Only one other player is in the top 20 of both.

Defensive rating - 6th (Again in the entire NBA; go look at the names on that top 10 list)
Defensive win shares - 5th
Defensive Box plus/minus - 2nd

FG% against - 9th (As of two weeks ago)

Based on these numbers he should get All-NBA Defense consideration despite only scratching his potential.

He is 30th in rebounds per game. Do you consider this a good thing? I think his blocks will only go up but I am not all that impressed with the steals per game.

 

[wcburrs87]

I think his rebounding will improve. He'll get stronger and better. Dude. he doesn't urn 21 until next month. He hasn't played that much hoops yet. You're being a little unreasonable here. Also, his rebounding has improved as the year has gone. In 17 games since the AS break he is averaging 10.0 rpg. In 8 of his last 13 games he has grabbed 11+. He's making progress.

Anyway, I just wanted to show that I wasn't pulling crap from ass when it came to his defensive metrics. Top ten in the entire league in many categories. You watch night in and night out and you can see how he influences game on that end. Looking at a box score on a computer doesn't show this.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:
I think his rebounding will improve. He'll get stronger and better. Dude. he doesn't urn 21 until next month. He hasn't played that much hoops yet. You're being a little unreasonable here. Also, his rebounding has improved as the year has gone. In 17 games since the AS break he is averaging 10.0 rpg. In 8 of his last 13 games he has grabbed 11+. He's making progress.

Anyway, I just wanted to show that I wasn't pulling crap from ass when it came to his defensive metrics. Top ten in the entire league in many categories. You watch night in and night out and you can see how he influences game on that end. Looking at a box score on a computer doesn't show this.

I am not saying he is worst player in the NBA but some people get all fired up about the guy. I know he's young but come on, the guy is a role player. He's never going to be a star type player. It's just a little annoying that Hinkie got rid of Vucevic, who I know is no defensive player, only to bring in Noel and a busted up Embiid.

You also have to consider that Noel is getting a ton of playing time because he's on a crappy team. Does he get over 30 minutes a game on most NBA teams? If the Sixers are a 35-40 win team in the next couple of years, will he still be playing a lot? Not so sure about this.

 

[wcburrs87]

Hinkie didn't trade Vucevic. Wrong regime. This conversation probably needs to end.

 

[gldendog]

I dont know why you think the Sixers would be anti-Okafor. I dont agree with that at all.

 

[Ninetynine5.0]

Originally posted by gldendog:
I dont know why you think the Sixers would be anti-Okafor. I dont agree with that at all.

I am not saying they are 'anti Okafur' - I just do not see them ending up with him - even if they have the #1. My thought is that they will now turn to rebuidling the front court and the wings, and they are going to need a few high end prospects to do that - either to play or trade. Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[NickleDimer]

WCburrs goes to war for the 76ers. All day. Every day. He will call out of work sick, cancel a kids birthday party, and miss a family funeral to defend a Sam Hinkie decision. You cannot outwork him.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Hinkie didn't trade Vucevic. Wrong regime. This conversation probably needs to end.

Ok, sorry, the Sixers traded him. You can end the conversation by not responding. No one is forcing you to reply. Of course you have to be pompous in doing so but that's just you.

 

[wcburrs87]

Originally posted by CWertz:

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Hinkie didn't trade Vucevic. Wrong regime. This conversation probably needs to end.

Ok, sorry, the Sixers traded him. You can end the conversation by not responding. No one is forcing you to reply. Of course you have to be pompous in doing so but that's just you.

I'm pompous because you're stating things that are inaccurate. You used words like stud and star and no one is saying anything like that. I've told you what my expectations of Noel are. They are not unreasonable. I show you defensive metrics that rate him as quality defensive player today, so you move onto rebounding. I show you how he's improved in that area, so you move onto the Vucevic trade that had nothing to do with Hinkie. When does it end?

 

[wcburrs87]

Originally posted by gldendog:
I dont know why you think the Sixers would be anti-Okafor. I dont agree with that at all.

I have no clue if they are anti-Okafor. My hunch is that they would prefer Towns. I don't know that to be a fact and I could be wrong. Again, just my hunch. Also, they eventually need some perimeter players to fill spots here, so that's another reason they might pass on him. If they think Embiid is going to be really good, then what purpose would Okafor serve?

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by CWertz:

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Hinkie didn't trade Vucevic. Wrong regime. This conversation probably needs to end.

Ok, sorry, the Sixers traded him. You can end the conversation by not responding. No one is forcing you to reply. Of course you have to be pompous in doing so but that's just you.

I'm pompous because you're stating things that are inaccurate. You used words like stud and star and no one is saying anything like that. I've told you what my expectations of Noel are. They are not unreasonable. I show you defensive metrics that rate him as quality defensive player today, so you move onto rebounding. I show you how he's improved in that area, so you move onto the Vucevic trade that had nothing to do with Hinkie. When does it end?

It ends when you stop posting about it. Isn't that easy enough? Aren't rebounds important in basketball, especially from the center position? I honestly meant to type Sixers and not Hinkie but whatever, the Sixers made a poor decision by letting Vucevic go only to bring in Noel later.

It could work out if they use Noel as a PF to play alongside of Embiid or Okafor but I don't believe Noel works as a true center.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by gldendog:
I dont know why you think the Sixers would be anti-Okafor. I dont agree with that at all.

I have no clue if they are anti-Okafor. My hunch is that they would prefer Towns. I don't know that to be a fact and I could be wrong. Again, just my hunch. Also, they eventually need some perimeter players to fill spots here, so that's another reason they might pass on him. If they think Embiid is going to be really good, then what purpose would Okafor serve?Isn't Okafor the most valuable player in the draft right now? Who projects better when Embiid is healthy?

 

[wcburrs87]

Yea, but you're changing things in mid-flight here.

Yes, trading Vucevic was bad. In fact, that entire trade was a disaster. I think we've been over that on here before. Regardless, it had nothing to do with Hinkie. Hey, Larry Brown insisting on Larry Hughes over Paul Pierce was also bad, so let's bring that into the conversation, too.

Let's judge Hinkie on Hinkie moves. Not what a prior GM did.

My problem with you concerning Noel is that you written the book on him already. You have it all figured out. You don't leave any room for improvement and fail to acknoweldge what he is currently strong at. You said he wasn't anything special defensively. Well, every stat I posted above proves that statement to be incorrect. The guy is in the infantile stages of his development. I cited you examples of good post players and how long it took them to get good. You're not interested in any facts. You have an agenda. Why else would you pop on here after a random Sixers/Celtics game to start it back up again?

Anyone with a brain, who understands this game, would admit that Noel has grown as a player throughout this season and has shown a lot of promise. Is he going to be a 20-12 guy? No. So what? That doesn't mean he can't be an instrumental part of a good team's success in time.

How it works out with him and Embiid, or maybe another big they get in this year's draft, and Saric in time, is beyond me right now. How about we let it play out and then see?

 

[gldendog]

Sixers wont get first pick anyway. That's reserved for the Knicks or Lakers just like it was reserved for the Cavs this yr so they could flip Wiggins to get another star to team with LeBron and ensure he went back to Cleveland. It's been written. Sixers will pick 2-4. Probably 3rd again, sounds about right.

 

[NickleDimer]

 

[wcburrs87]

Originally posted by CWertz:

Originally posted by wcburrs87:

Originally posted by gldendog:
I dont know why you think the Sixers would be anti-Okafor. I dont agree with that at all.

I have no clue if they are anti-Okafor. My hunch is that they would prefer Towns. I don't know that to be a fact and I could be wrong. Again, just my hunch. Also, they eventually need some perimeter players to fill spots here, so that's another reason they might pass on him. If they think Embiid is going to be really good, then what purpose would Okafor serve?

Isn't Okafor the most valuable player in the draft right now? Who projects better when Embiid is healthy?

IMO, I'd prefer Towns over Okafor. I'm sure there are some NBA franchises that agree with that and some that think Okafor is the better prospect. Okafor is very polished offensively, but he's not a good defensive player, he doesn't really protect the rim,.he doesn't rebound all that well. He can pass out of the post. I don't love his body type. He plays too much below the rim for my liking. I think he'll score in the NBA. I think Towns will be better at more parts of the game and has a higher upside.

For me, Embiid has one concern. Staying healthy. If that occurs, then I think he is CLEARLY the better prospect over Okafor. A better two-way player. I really don't think it will be close if Embiid is healthy.

 

[wcburrs87]

Originally posted by gldendog:
Sixers wont get first pick anyway. That's reserved for the Knicks or Lakers just like it was reserved for the Cavs this yr so they could flip Wiggins to get another star to team with LeBron and ensure he went back to Cleveland. It's been written. Sixers will pick 2-4. Probably 3rd again, sounds about right.

Your conspiracy theories are always entertaining. I will give you that.

Just like last year when everyone said the Lakers/Celtics would get the top pick.

However, I do agree that I doubt the Sxiers get the top pick. Just playing the percentages with that.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by gldendog:
Sixers wont get first pick anyway. That's reserved for the Knicks or Lakers just like it was reserved for the Cavs this yr so they could flip Wiggins to get another star to team with LeBron and ensure he went back to Cleveland. It's been written. Sixers will pick 2-4. Probably 3rd again, sounds about right.

NBA Draftnet has the Knicks taking Towns. Should the Sixers go for Mudiay?

Mock Draft

 

[wcburrs87]

Well, if that's the order then I doubt MINN passes on Okafor and takes D. Russell. MINN already has a wing in Wiggins and they still have Rubio at point. They are going to want to see tickets and I think Okafor's name rings out more than D. Russell at this point. But just to play along under those conditions, then I think the Sixers weigh how interested/desperate the Lakers are for Okafor. IF they are really biting to get him then you swap picks and snake something from them. I haven't seen Mudiay, so I can't really comment on him. I hear Westbrook comparisons. Not sure that's realistic, tho. If they really like him, then go get him.

 

[SnottieDrippen]

Denying Noel's defensive talent seems silly considering every respected NBA talking head agrees. Yes, the Sixers only have one clear NBA Player. That fact is why Noel "doesn't help the team win" - not his defensive prowess. It's okay to say the one guy the Sixers have is actually good - nothing crazy about it.

And then to say he's only effective on defense and so it means he will be a role player? Whatever happened to defense wins championships? There are two sides of the court and it is easier to learn to become an average offensive player than to become an average defensive player.

Plenty of metrics to back up his D. As for his offense - his TS% was .470 as of December (horrendous). Has been a passable .520 in the 2-3 months since then. There is a slight hope of offensive improvement.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by SnottieDrippen:
Denying Noel's defensive talent seems silly considering every respected NBA talking head agrees. Yes, the Sixers only have one clear NBA Player. That fact is why Noel "doesn't help the team win" - not his defensive prowess. It's okay to say the one guy the Sixers have is actually good - nothing crazy about it.

And then to say he's only effective on defense and so it means he will be a role player? Whatever happened to defense wins championships? There are two sides of the court and it is easier to learn to become an average offensive player than to become an average defensive player.

Plenty of metrics to back up his D. As for his offense - his TS% was .470 as of December (horrendous). Has been a passable .520 in the 2-3 months since then. There is a slight hope of offensive improvement.

But would he earn as much time in the lineup of a really good team with eight or nine true NBA players? the NBA is starting to get like MLB with the metrics. Are they always spot on and truly tell everything about a player?

 

[matty17]

Mudiay or Russell would be ideal for the 76ers. Prefer Mudiay because he is a pure point guard with incredible quickness. Russell is terrific but more of a combo.He is a better shooter however.

Towns is a superior athlete and defender/rebounder and has greater upside and should definitely be picked before Okafor.

 

[wcburrs87]

The last two nights for Noel....

28 pts
25 Rebs
5 assists
4 steals
10 blocks

I'm pretty sure he's developing.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by wcburrs87:
The last two nights for Noel....

28 pts
25 Rebs
5 assists
4 steals
10 blocks

I'm pretty sure he's developing.

You're sold on him now, huh? Guy scores 14 points in a game against the Nuggets and you run to the computer to post. I thought ND was kind of reaching being critical of you and your Hinkie love but damn, he is right. Talk to me when Noel does something that matters in a real game.

 

[tomdudes]

CW, you don't see the irony of touting Vucevic as a player on one hand and then dismissing Noels on the other hand for "tell me when he does something in a game that matters"? Listen, nobody is saying that Noels is Tim Duncan, but if you can't see that he is more than an NBA role player, then I don't know how else to convince you. And since the Sixers won't be playing in a game "that matters" for a while, I don't think that's the right metric for right now.

 

[NickleDimer]

Originally posted by CWertz:
I thought ND was kind of reaching being critical of you and your Hinkie love but damn, he is right.

I was going to post about how gr8 Demarcus Cousins looked last night. And the hilarity of the Sixers getting convinced by stupid Quin Snyder to draft stupid Evan Turner. But I'll just bask in this moment. It's not often someone tells me I'm right.

 

[wcburrs87]

I've said from day one that his ceiling defensively was All-NBA level. The offense will definitely be a work-in-progress moving forward. He will have ups and downs for sure, but anyone that doesn't see his development is either blind or in denial. The Sixers are now a top 10 defensive efficiency team after being last or close to last a year ago. This has 100% to do with Noel. Undeniable. Unless, you have an agenda to say otherwise.

This has nothing to do with Hinkie, but with Noel's development. Something you fail to see.

 

[wcburrs87]

Cwertz, read this article. Not for any other reason other than to see that I'm not making crap up.

Noel

 

[wcburrs87]

The last time I checked Sam Hinkie wasn't around when the Sixers took Turner. It's pretty cool to see that when you people like you and Cwertz want to criticize someone you cite examples that had nothing to do with him. Hey, why hold back? Cite the Larry Hughes draft. Take it further back and cite the Moses for Jeff Ruland trade.

 

[cleanwave]

76'ers won 3 out of 5. Sumthin'

 

[matty17]

Over the last two months, the ROY voting is not even close. Noel would win by a large margin. Taken over the entire season, it is close but will go to Wiggins only because of the points per game. In every other aspect, Noel is having the better season and makes more of an impact in a game.

This post was edited on 3/26 9:52 AM by matty17

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by tomdudes:
CW, you don't see the irony of touting Vucevic as a player on one hand and then dismissing Noels on the other hand for "tell me when he does something in a game that matters"? Listen, nobody is saying that Noels is Tim Duncan, but if you can't see that he is more than an NBA role player, then I don't know how else to convince you. And since the Sixers won't be playing in a game "that matters" for a while, I don't think that's the right metric for right now.

I hope he turns into a stud, I am a Sixers fan. My fear is, this "decent" Noel play means nothing because it's garbage time, all the time.

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by matty17:

Over the last two months, the ROY voting is not even close. Noel would win by a large margin. Taken over the entire season, it is close but will go to Wiggins only because of the points per game. In every other aspect, Noel is having the better season and makes more of an impact in a game.

This post was edited on 3/26 9:52 AM by matty17

Remind me again who won rookie of the year last season and where that rookie is currently playing?

 

[CWertz]

burrs, just name one thing that you don't like that Sam Hinkie has done with the Sixers? is there anything?

 

[matty17]

Originally posted by CWertz:

Originally posted by matty17:

Over the last two months, the ROY voting is not even close. Noel would win by a large margin. Taken over the entire season, it is close but will go to Wiggins only because of the points per game. In every other aspect, Noel is having the better season and makes more of an impact in a game.


This post was edited on 3/26 9:52 AM by matty17

Remind me again who won rookie of the year last season and where that rookie is currently playing?

Two completely different players in two very different rookie seasons but I get your point.

 

[tomdudes]

before I tout "Noels" too much, I better learn how to type his last name! mea culpa

 

[CWertz]

Originally posted by matty17:

Over the last two months, the ROY voting is not even close. Noel would win by a large margin. Taken over the entire season, it is close but will go to Wiggins only because of the points per game. In every other aspect, Noel is having the better season and makes more of an impact in a game.

This post was edited on 3/26 9:52 AM by matty17

If the Wolves offered you Andrew Wiggins for Nerlens Noel straight up, would you take the deal?

 

[wcburrs87]

I didn't like the McDaniels trade. Not saying he's a sure-fire rotation guy, but I wanted to see him a little more. As time goes on there may be more criticisms. They tore the team down last year, so this is really the first year of the rebuild. Eventually, we'll have to see growth. I was aware that last year would be the tear down and this year would be bad in terms of W-L's. He doesn't get forever to make them at minimum viable. So, as time goes on the chances to criticize will increase. I expected what I see this year, so I'm not going to bitch about it relentlessly.