Sam Hinkie as Sixers GM remembered

[Burrs5]

Burrs, it's interesting. You like ti explain how you are the guy who understands the nba. Yet, in the Era of free agents and agents steering guys to super teams you completely discount the broad damage hinkie did to the sixers standing among the players, agents and people who control the game. For a guy who likes to tell everyone how much he knows about the pro game you seem to miss the forest through the trees. You focus on the chance to pick a bunch of 19 year old kids, you still must get the right ones and hinkie did not, who are years away.

The broad damage? They haven't done anything since 2001.

Again, if you can't draw FAs because you don't have money or any talent in place, then what you have to do is simple. Clear space (Hinkie check), draft talented young guys (Hinkie check), and collect assets (Hinkie check).

Yea, yea, yea I know they don't have any talent according to you. But that's because you like to write off 20-21 year old kids who don't step on the court and dominate from the get-go (realistic outlook). Yawn.

 

[Burrs5]

I just did. Hinkie was awful. You want to point to a few picks they killed years and credibility to get. Heck, the agents told the sixers not to draft their players. See porzingis, maybe this bum why they took the bum okafor? Who knows.

No, you didn't. Which guy is starting their tenures in a better situation? Answer the question!!!! Just give me a name. Cmon, you can do it.

Porzingus didn't exactly end the year on a tremendous note. Let's have it play out a little more. You're probably right, but stranger things have happened. Easy to get caught up in the CoDB hype even though they've been less relevant than the Sixers in the last two decades.

 

[Burrs5]

ADP, how many total NBA games have you watched this year? O/U 7.5

 

[adp98]

Way over. Love the nba product.

 

[Burrs5]

Way over. Love the nba product.

Cool.

Oh yea, I like this quote....


"Whatever you think of Sam Hinkie's method for rebuilding the Philadelphia 76ers over his three years as the team's general manager and president of basketball operations before stepping down Wednesday, there's one inescapable conclusion: Hinkie leaves the organization in better shape than he found it.

Because of the young players and draft picks the 76ers have amassed, their next general manager -- likely Bryan Colangelo, son of team chairman of basketball operations Jerry Colangelo, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein -- will be better positioned to succeed than Hinkie was when he took over the team in May 2013."

---"Not Burrs, but ESPN writer"

 

[NickleDimer]

So Hinkie's gr8 success is a few extra mid first round and 2nd round picks? That was his daring strategy? I don't give him credit for tanking and getting top3 picks nor clearing CAP SPACE. Anyone could have done that. He signed no promising long term diamonds in the rough and drafted no future all stars.

 

[tomjackleman]

So Hinkie's gr8 success is a few extra mid first round and 2nd round picks? That was his daring strategy? I don't give him credit for tanking and getting top3 picks nor clearing CAP SPACE. Anyone could have done that. He signed no promising long term diamonds in the rough and drafted no future all stars.

Bingo - the best hope is to take these "assets" and hope someone else is willing to part with a once in a generation talent (JB2P76 for JO & CS & 2RD DPs per Burrs).

Simmons used to say you win trades in the NBA by turning three quarters into a dollar (might be paraphrasing here). Hinkie's Process turned a bunch of dimes and quarters into a few nickels and pulls of the penny slots.

 

[SnottieDrippen]

Bingo - the best hope is to take these "assets" and hope someone else is willing to part with a once in a generation talent (JB2P76 for JO & CS & 2RD DPs per Burrs).

Simmons used to say you win trades in the NBA by turning three quarters into a dollar (might be paraphrasing here). Hinkie's Process turned a bunch of dimes and quarters into a few nickels and pulls of the penny slots.

That analogy is pretty damn good and I'm a guy who liked Hinkie's plan. Excited for some real basketball next year, hoping gold is struck

 

[adp98]

Cool.

Oh yea, I like this quote....


"Whatever you think of Sam Hinkie's method for rebuilding the Philadelphia 76ers over his three years as the team's general manager and president of basketball operations before stepping down Wednesday, there's one inescapable conclusion: Hinkie leaves the organization in better shape than he found it.

Because of the young players and draft picks the 76ers have amassed, their next general manager -- likely Bryan Colangelo, son of team chairman of basketball operations Jerry Colangelo, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein -- will be better positioned to succeed than Hinkie was when he took over the team in May 2013."

---"Not Burrs, but ESPN writer"

"Sources told"....hard hitting. Were the sources hard-hitting Corbs like? You have sunk to new lows of desperation.

 

[Burrs5]

"Sources told"....hard hitting. Were the sources hard-hitting Corbs like? You have sunk to new lows of desperation.

Over your head again. The sources told was in reference to BC taking over. The point of my posting this quote was to show that someone who actually covers the league agrees the team is in much better position today than when Hinkie took over. Yet, ADP has not acknowledge this. Why? Because he knows it's true and he can't bring himself to do so.

 

[NickleDimer]

a well trained monkey could have fielded a d-league roster and cleared cap space over the last 3 years. So you're certain that the success of the Hinkie Process hinges on some mid first round and 2nd round picks over the next two drafts? The same picks that make 34 win seasons so terrible?

 

[adp98]

Can we agree on a metric/win total to measure this mess. 17-18 would be 5 years and if the Sixers are so much better off over their middling 40+ win seasons I think 50 while winning a round or two in the playoffs is reasonable progress in 5 seasons. Probably a bit low for professional sports but I'll be conservative. We agree that's a reasonable outcome to measure how much better off the Sixers are from the Hinkie #process?

 

[NickleDimer]

So the WAR of these late first rounders and 2nd rounders have to exceed that of Jrue and Thad by 10 games?

 

[adp98]

ND: Here is what "someone who covers the NBA" had to say about what the #process gave the Sixers for their tank job in 2014-15: "There isn't a case for anyone else. Jahlil Okafor missed 35 percent of the season, played some of the worst big-man defense in NBA history and exacerbated an internal crisis with embarrassing off-court behavior. He sure scored a lot, though!"

That was in reference to the Rookie of the Year award.

 

[LizReed]

Good to have the ADP/Burrs feuds back.

 

[NickleDimer]

ND: Here is what "someone who covers the NBA" had to say about what the #process gave the Sixers for their tank job in 2014-15: "There isn't a case for anyone else. Jahlil Okafor missed 35 percent of the season, played some of the worst big-man defense in NBA history and exacerbated an internal crisis with embarrassing off-court behavior. He sure scored a lot, though!"

That was in reference to the Rookie of the Year award.

Sounds like a bigger MCW! Lets flip him for a 2022 first rounder!

 

[adp98]

Good to have the ADP/Burrs feuds back.

In this thread Burrs is fueding with his own sanity and previous positiins. Too soon to tell? Nope, better off by burning the house down with no accountability to actually improve the team with players.

 

[Burrs5]

In this thread Burrs is fueding with his own sanity and previous positiins. Too soon to tell? Nope, better off by burning the house down with no accountability to actually improve the team with players.

Not at all.

ADP, still hasn't answered the question about being in a better position. ADP still hasn't outlined what he thinks would be a good way to go about it. He has a brilliant mind, so I'd like to hear his thoughts, but he just won't share them. Disappointing.

Anyway, I wasn't anxious to see Hinkie go. I thought this off-season was going to produce a step forward. I was ok with giving him 5 years, with the last couple of these years showing signs of the ascend. And it still might happen with BC at the helm. I do understand ownerships's concerns with Hinkie's way of dealing with agents/GMs in a relationship league like the NBA. So, I was ok with them trying to fix that.

Creating a great team in the NBA isn't an easy process. I know you guys think it is. But like the one article said, sacrificing a few 30-win seasons for what we got isn't that big of a deal.

The great thing for all the anti-Hinkie people is that he's gone and they can save their breath talking about him. BC will either use what he left to build something great or he will use it to give guys like ND, ADP what they want, which is 37-win, contend for 8th seed seasons. WIN-WIN for you guys. WIN-LOSE for me. I'll take my chances and support this guy along the way.

Oh yea, I'll be ok with 8th seed or just missing playoffs if the nucleus in place is still developing and not at it's ceiling yet.

 

[ChuckSullivan97]

Fellas, fellas, let's stop escalating things and take the stairs for a minute ay?

Burrs is right in the sense that if you are a GM, you want to take over the current situation more so than the situation Hinkie inherited. It was obvious that the Sixers were going nowhere with their nucleus. They hired Hinkie to change the status quo and try something different that hadn't been done quite to that extreme yet. ADP is right in the sense that #TheProcess has been a failure to this point. Obviously #TheProcess is a huge risk based on lottery balls, who is entering the draft, and young players panning out which can be a crapshoot. They didn't want Embiid to be out 2 full seasons, possibly more. (draft was terrible anyway, but again, that is a risk with the tanking process) They didn't know Saric would stay overseas 2 full seasons, possibly more. Okafor was likely the wrong pick in 2015. Also, when you develop that losing culture, it is really tough to get out of it.

Tough for me to take a side here. To be honest, I really wanted to see what Hinkie did this off-season. At this point, I don't really care if it would have taken another couple years to field a competitive team. I kind of wanted the Sixers ownership to see it through. But again, I get the other side of it.

In other words, "too soon to tell"!

 

[gldendog]

Its amazing how many people I talk to who are on completely opposite sides of this situation. I can see both viewpoints. The most logical one, to a perspective mind, considering the situation, is to see what comes of this offseason. Before truly judging. After this whole offseason we will have a lot better idea of the direction here. If the Sixers don't get a top 2 pick the haters will have a giant foot to stand on. If the Sixers do get a top 2 pick, and the Lakers pick conveys (45% chance), the supporters will look smart. At the end of the day Joel Embiid's foot holds the whole thing together. It's reasonable to see the Sixers can move forward and be good without him if the other pieces fall well. But to truly compete, it's all about him. There's no way he isn't a terrific player, if....

 

[LizReed]

Hinkie = Romney.......take a distressed asset, strip it down, re-sell

 

[adp98]

When you say, "see it through", you mean allow the guy has proven to be inept at picking players to continue to pick the players? What exactly did hinkie do? He stripped the club, sold it for future pieces and when he cashed those pieces in he misfired. Anyone on this board could have done the same thing. He got us a guy who didn't play for two seasons, another guy who is overseas, and a headache who is the worst defender in the league at his position. Anyone could do as much.

 

[adp98]

Hinkie = Romney.......take a distressed asset, strip it down, re-sell

No, Romney was successful in reinvesting the money.

 

[NickleDimer]

in regards to the claim: better situation now than before Hinkie, I would like to see how much different. One or two rotation players now and a couple more picks than if they had done nothing but tank. Not sure there is any magic in that. It's not like he found anything special. They paid a lot of cash for those picks.

 

[adp98]

Yes, but here is the key and it speaks to gdog's post above: what exactly are these picks getting you? Henry Ellenson, Kris Dunn? who the Fuk cares. Those guys don't move the needle. The Sixers will have their own pick which was going to be good regardless of the tank. The tank only improves the chances of getting lucky. You guys are so downtrodden you have signed off on a multi-year strategy that improves your chances of getting luck. 0-2 thus far in the #process. However, let's go back to gdog's post. So what if the Lakers pick conveys. Let's say it's #6. Who the heck are you getting at #6 in this slop of a draft that moves the needle or has been worth sacrificing 3 years? It's a joke. You guys are missing the fact these drafts aren't producing studs. You still have to identify the few and hit the pick. The Heat and Thunder picks are nothing burgers. You might get Josh Hart and some 19 year old kid who averaged 10 points per game in his one college season. Really moving the needle. These picks won't be as good as any decent NBA veteran the Sixers could have signed 100 X over with their loads of cap space. It's a complete joke.

 

[NickleDimer]

Adp is killing it in this thread. It took him a month or two, but he's finally recovering from the fall of Rubio. Happens to the best of us.

 

[adp98]

Adp is killing it in this thread. It took him a month or two, but he's finally recovering from the fall of Rubio. Happens to the best of us.

The Nova title has me reinvigorated. That and the stupidity of the Hinkie supporters.

 

[NickleDimer]

The Nova title has me reinvigorated. That and the stupidity of the Hinkie supporters.

And the Nats are running away with the division.
You're an indictment away from feeling bulletproof.

 

[cleanwave]

Be cool if Harris sold to somebody worthy.

 

[NickleDimer]

Be cool if Harris sold to somebody worthy.

worthy candidates:
Sly Stallone
Chase Utley
Brian Dawkins

 

[Burrs5]

In years past ADP could be heard saying, "What are these picks exactly getting you? Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Damon Lillard, Paul George, Kwahi Leonard, etc, etc. Who the eff cares?"

I find it remarkable that he can just write and close the books on 19-21 year old kids so soon. Why is he working in DC and not in a NBA front office? I mean, he has it all figured out.

Seriously, you acting like you know how any of these kids turn out is comical.

 

[adp98]

Seriously, you acting like you know how any of these kids turn out is comical.[/QUOTE]

No, tank 3 years for a bunch of unknowns. Ladies and gentlemen, the Sixers. Burrs, hit the showers.

 

[Ninetynine5.0]

"I never said ben Simmons wouldn't be an All Star"

Adp Feb, 2019

 

[adp98]

http://deadspin.com/failure-artist-sam-hinkie-produces-his-masterpiece-1769658799

my favorite piece. Note they even drop an "intellectually dishonest". DMIL, I hope the Rangers eat $hit.

 

[Ninetynine5.0]

http://deadspin.com/failure-artist-sam-hinkie-produces-his-masterpiece-1769658799

my favorite piece. Note they even drop an "intellectually dishonest". DMIL, I hope the Rangers eat $hit.

Wow, you're touchy. I was doing you a favor. Wanted to help you move the goalpost. It's heavy lifting and I get tired watching you do it all the time.

 

[Burrs5]

Seriously, you acting like you know how any of these kids turn out is comical.

No, tank 3 years for a bunch of unknowns. Ladies and gentlemen, the Sixers. Burrs, hit the showers.[/QUOTE]

Again, what would you do? Lay it out there.

ADP, how fukking good were they going to be regardless?

ADP watched 9 NBA games this year. He's an expert.

I've heard people disagree with Hinkie's methods. And there is nothing wrong that. I get why people don't like it. But at least they can reasonably state an alternative option. ADP can't even do that. Why? Because had zero clue.

 

[Burrs5]

Oh yea, good, fair, reasonable post from Chucky S.

 

[adp98]

No, tank 3 years for a bunch of unknowns. Ladies and gentlemen, the Sixers. Burrs, hit the showers.

Again, what would you do? Lay it out there.

ADP, how fukking good were they going to be regardless?

ADP watched 9 NBA games this year. He's an expert.

I've heard people disagree with Hinkie's methods. And there is nothing wrong that. I get why people don't like it. But at least they can reasonably state an alternative option. ADP can't even do that. Why? Because had zero clue.[/QUOTE]
You build a team through the draft, surround players, work on player development and create a winning culture. That's the 21st time I've answered. Or you do what successful organizations in all walks of life do: you try to succeed and create accountability.

 

[tomjackleman]

Steph Curry: 7th overall, 2009 Draft
Klay Thompson: 11th overall, 2011 Draft
Dame Lillard: 6th overall, 2012 draft
Paul George: 10th overall, 2010 draft
Kawhi Leonard: 15th overall, 2011 draft

But burrs insists you need 3+ years of over the top tanking to get these players....Not one of those players was even drafted top 3. They went to situations that fit, where they tried to win, and where they could develop.

 

[NickleDimer]

Steph Curry: 7th overall, 2009 Draft
Klay Thompson: 11th overall, 2011 Draft
Dame Lillard: 6th overall, 2012 draft
Paul George: 10th overall, 2010 draft
Kawhi Leonard: 15th overall, 2011 draft

But burrs insists you need 3+ years of over the top tanking to get these players....Not one of those players was even drafted top 3. They went to situations that fit, where they tried to win, and where they could develop.

You can draft good players while winning more than 20 games a year?!?!