NFL Draft

[Burrs5]

So we can chalk this up to CoP homerism like when you defended the 76ers half decade of tanking?

How am I being a homer? Did put someone in Canton already?

I actually agree with a lot of what you said. It's certainly risky and the odds aren't great. However, when it comes to QBs that will always be the case. This isn't something a franchise can do that often, but if you like a guy that much and are able to go get him, then I can understand the logic.

 

[qwe002]

How am I being a homer? Did put someone in Canton already?

I actually agree with a lot of what you said. It's certainly risky and the odds aren't great. However, when it comes to QBs that will always be the case. This isn't something a franchise can do that often, but if you like a guy that much and are able to go get him, then I can understand the logic.

But who is it that they like? The guy from North Dakota or the kid from Cal?

If there was a clear cut #1 pick and they were going after him, then fine. But this looks like a ryan leaf/rick mirer type of sloppy seconds type draft.

 

[Burrs5]

Fair enough, but do you trade up to 2 to have the guy sit behind a guy making a lot of money? Kurt Warner (I don't think was making that kind of money when Giants drafted Eli), Eli also started in game 10, maybe?

Nothing wrong with a guy sitting for one year.

 

[nardibynature2]

Nothing wrong with a guy sitting for one year.

Which guy, clearly they know the one they want.

 

[Burrs5]

But who is it that they like? The guy from North Dakota or the kid from Cal?

If there was a clear cut #1 pick and they were going after him, then fine. But this looks like a ryan leaf/rick mirer type of sloppy seconds type draft.

I think they prefer Wentz and I think they will get Wentz.

Everything I read has both of them being covered. Some people like Goff slightly better and some like Wentz slightly better.

Goff is a Cali kid and with Rams moving there it probably makes sense for them to go in that direction.

 

[vufjm93]

#DoIt.com
#Liar.com
#OrlandoPace4Ever.com

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but in case you wanted backup for my claim on offensive lineman in the top 5 that have been busts:
2014 - 2-Greg Robinson (possible bust)
2013 - 1-Eric Fisher (probable bust)
2-Luke Joeckel (bust)
4-Lane Johnson (good)
2012 - 4-Matt Kalil (bust)
2011 - none
2010 - 4-Trent Williams (Pro-Bowl)
2009 - 2-Jason Smith (bust)
2008 - 1-Jake Long (PB)
2007 - 3-Joe Thomas (PB)
5-Levi Brown (mediocre)
2006 - 4-D'Bricksaw Ferguson (PB)
2005 - none
2004 - 2-Robert Gallery (bust)
2003 - none
2002 - none
2001 - 2-Leonard Davis (PB eventually)
2000 - 3-Chris Samuels (PB)

So 6 players that have made the Pro-Bowl out of 14 selected in the top 5 of the draft. And lots of busts, particularly in the past 5 years. Is that any better than the rate of success of QBs?

And you're poo-pooing players like Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Alex Smith, Michael Vick, and Matt Ryan who have all made multiple Pro-Bowls.

You can probably make the case for any position in the league that there are as many busts as great players in the top of the draft.

 

[bmoneynova]

Lane Johnson isn't a bust

Greg Robinson isn't a bust. yet.

 

[adp98]

I have most certainly watched plenty of tape on a lot of these guys, yes. I love the NFL draft.

its OK to admit you dont know anything about these guys but dont criticize others about it

I love the draft as well but give me a break. You didn't see a single snap the guy played live. Don't act like you are jaws breaking down the tape.

 

[bmoneynova]

I love the draft as well but give me a break. You didn't see a single snap the guy played live. Don't act like you are jaws breaking down the tape.

you think Todd McShay or Mike Mayock or those guys are watching North Dakota State games live on Saturday afternoons?

get lost. that is why those types of sites like DraftBreakdown exist. its impossible to watch all these guys live. what a silly statement.

 

[adp98]

So you are mike maycock, breaking down tape 20 hours per week in your spare time? Where did you play? Regardless, I hope they are paying you well.

 

[bmoneynova]

who the hell said that? I said I've watched tape on him. This is a fact. That doesn't mean I have watched tape on all 250+ freaking prospects that will be drafted.

where did I play? what the hell are you even talking about? if I didn't play the game, it means I can't break down players?

again, real moronic statements.

 

[adp98]

You have peaked my interest so I will play along. How much actual tape have you seen? I bet at least 3 whole minutes right? Or have you spent hours digging throught tape on this kid? What skills do you being and how much time have you invested to be an authority on a kid you have never seen play live?

 

[bmoneynova]

again, have you ever been to Draft Breakdown?

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/carson-wentz/

there is nothing to "dig through". they do it all for you and post videos of every pass. I probably watched maybe half of those videos on there. which took all of ~30 minutes.

I am amused that this bothers you so much

 

[adp98]

So you spent 30 minutes breaking down game tape on wentz?

 

[bmoneynova]

I spent 30 minutes watching some of those videos, yes.

why does this bother you so much?

 

[adp98]

So not 30 minutes on wentz but all the videos. Please clarify. And it doesn't bother me at all. I'm simply pointing out the ridiculousness off your entire speil. You probably saw 4 minutes of tape and listened to Todd mcshay...just like everyone else. No one us watched this kid play a single second of college ball and we aren't mike maycock. We all have no clue. You aren't special.

 

[bmoneynova]

who the HELL said I was special? I watched probably 30 minutes of those Wentz videos. I enjoy that this rubs you the wrong way.

again, just because YOU are clueless on these players doesn't mean everyone is.

I never said I am an expert. but I have seen him play.

 

[adp98]

No, you have seen tape of him play against low level competition.

 

[bmoneynova]

so because I didn't see a player live, I can't ever make a judgement on them?

that is your stance?

 

[tomdudes]

Question, if I watched a North Dakota state game live on TV while it was happening, does that count as watching him live? Or do I need to be in the stadium to make that claim?

 

[adp98]

so because I didn't see a player live, I can't ever make a judgement on them?

that is your stance?

When you are watching 30 minutes of North Dakota state tape, are you sitting in the dark, wearing a visor, eating a burger while scrippling on a notepad amist stacks of paper?

 

[LizReed]

 

[adp98]

You guys think he speaks in a Jon Gruden voice to himself during the "film sessions".

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

I own a North Dakota State Bison t-shirt. Does that make me more or less eligible than bmoneys to make a comment on Wentz?

 

[bmoneynova]

adp you are never allowed to comment on anything ever again unless you watch every single second of every single player's games live (not recorded or highlights)

thanks. will keep this in mind for the future.

 

[LizReed]

adp you are never allowed to comment on anything ever again unless you watch every single second of every single player's games live (not recorded or highlights)

thanks. will keep this in mind for the future.

So we shouldn't be expecting any Bryce Harper analysis going forward?

 

[CWertz]

I'm changing my handle to CWentz, guy is going to be a HOF player.

 

[adp98]

Depends, how much film do you watch on a regular basis? Do you have a half-eaten cheeseburger laying in front of you with a big gulp, visor with pencil

adp you are never allowed to comment on anything ever again unless you watch every single second of every single player's games live (not recorded or highlights)

thanks. will keep this in mind for the future.

When you're in a hole stop digging. You watched the kid throw 30 balls on some tape against a bunch of weak comp. You have no idea what you saw or if he's going to be any good. Stop it.

 

[bmoneynova]

you are creating claims that I never made. All I said was I have watched some game film on him, as I have done with many of the top prospects. I never said I knew if he would be good or not. I never said I was an expert on the draft.

You are the one making up ridiculous things like "you can't judge a player if you haven't seen him live".

 

[tomdudes]

I'm going on record, I think Wentz will be a better NFL QB than Goff.

 

[Ninetynine5.0]

I don't anything about these guys. I haven't even watched enough clips to call out a guy who's watched actual clips. But about a month or so after the CFB season ended, i listed to some roundtable with guys like Kiper and a few others and the topic they were discussing was weather there was a legit first round QB in this draft. Most of them cited Paxton Lynch as the guy most likely to go first. One guy, can't remember who, said Wentz or Goff 'had a shot if someone was reaching' That was a couple months ago.

In the end to me, it feels like a helluva lot to grab a guy that has a fair amount of question marks (and they all seem to have them). Then again, you don't really get to trade for a pick if there is a Andrew Luck in the draft, no matter how much you might be willing to give up.

 

[the return of dirk( the surgeon)]

Vikes fan here......Kalil is not a pro-bowler, but he is not a bust either.....Doesn't work hard enough......
And I remember when the vikes gave the cowgirls all those picks for a proven Hershel Walker.....

 

[bmoneynova]

 

[nardibynature2]

View embedded media

Too soon to tell.

 

[adp98]

Didn't they just pay him a big bonus when he signed the new deal? So they will have to eat the money even if they trade him. That would suck if you're the guy stroking the check.

 

[Burrs5]

Didn't they just pay him a big bonus when he signed the new deal? So they will have to eat the money even if they trade him. That would suck if you're the guy stroking the check.

Yea, because most NFL owners are struggling to get by.

I think the bonus was 11 mil.

Easy way to make something like this (trade) happen than going to the media. Ultimately, if he doesn't report, then he won't get paid, right?

 

[nardibynature2]

Yea, because most NFL owners are struggling to get by.

I think the bonus was 11 mil.

Easy way to make something like this (trade) happen than going to the media. Ultimately, if he doesn't report, then he won't get paid, right?

He still gets the chump change of 11 million though? Correct?

Burrs, what are your thoughts on this one, want to see how you align with other CoP'ers.

 

[adp98]

He still gets the chump change of 11 million though? Correct?

Burrs, what are your thoughts on this one, want to see how you align with other CoP'ers.

Yes and it goes against the Birds cap if they cut or trade him. Birds didn't really think this through when they went out and signed two QB's and then traded a ton of picks to draft another one. Should be a great lockerroom for their new head coach.

 

[bmoneynova]

Brady's suspension upheld by the way, so as it stands currently he is suspended for the first 4 games of 2016

I hate that we're going to have to hear about this crap all over again

 

[Burrs5]

He still gets the chump change of 11 million though? Correct?

Burrs, what are your thoughts on this one, want to see how you align with other CoP'ers.

Thoughts on which part?

The Bradford part of it or the trade?

I didn't mind the contract they gave Bradford. I thought it was team friendly and it was a way to see if he could play/earn a longer one. They really didn't commit long-term to him.

As far as the trade and drafting a QB at #2. I don't have a problem with that either. If you identify a player as a possible franchise QB and you have the means to get him, then I think you should do it.

Because of both of these moves I don't think it'd an ideal situation today, but I don't believe it will be all that difficult to rectify the situation and it's not like Bradford is signed for 4-5 years. They can basically get out of the deal after one season. Maybe, they find a trade partner, eat some money, lose some space for a year, possibly get an asset in return. We'll see.

As far as either Goff/Wentz being a franchise QB? I have no clue, but if they believe one of them is, then I can live with it.